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Randall Arthur

1 Year Ago

Voting Restrictions In Contests

Kust dropping this out there for everyone.

I was just viewing a contest to vote for the pieces that I thought had merit and fit the rules of the contest. I had only gotten to about forty when I found I had reached a limit for my votes. Now, I don't want to complain too much but it seems unfair to other pieces and artists that are deeper into the stack and there are many good works before them. If there were a tab where all my previous votes could easily be accessed then maybe I would devote the time to cancel prior votes.

Let the viewer select all they can so all artists have a more equal chance to be voted on. Just my opinion,

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Heather Applegate

1 Year Ago

You can cancel your votes, just go to the My Contest tab and you'll see a list of them on the left side. Click on the image and then click the button above it to cancel your vote.

 

Ginny Schmidt

1 Year Ago

I've done that, Randall, and have gone into My Contest to delete a couple of votes and then gone back to be a bit more selective in my choices. Most contests will say up front whether voting is unlimited of restricted to a few or even just one. Limited voting is tricky when there are hundreds of entries - impossible to go through one by one - I generally review the pages of thumbnails under "Images" to get an overview of all the submissions, then go back page by page selecting a few to vote for.

 

Mike Savad

1 Year Ago

there is a reason why there are limits in voting. an image shouldn't just have merit, it should be good or great. if there were unlimited votes, everyone could easily have a tie score and that doesn't help that much. like if you could only vote on 5 - which one would they be?


---Mike Savad

 

Dan Carmichael

1 Year Ago

Forty? You kidding?! LOL.

Just wait until you run across one of the contests where you are allowed to upload two or more images, but only allowed one vote!

Yep, they exist.

The whole contest gets filled with images with one vote as each artist decides which single image they uploaded the want to cast their single vote on.

Hopefully FAA will fix that some day. It would be an easy fix to code - a simple algorithm that restricts the number of votes to no less than double the number of images allowed to be entered.

 

Chuck De La Rosa

1 Year Ago

I see the merits of all types of voting options. However, when I see a contest that only allows one vote I avoid it. It means that the best really won't win. What I'd like to see when votes are restricted to one is that you can't vote on your own work.

 

I very rarely run across a contest that has enough validity to take seriously the image that won the contest. The best image very rarely wins... especially if there are more than 100 entries. Voting is a tedious task at best.... and slanted, as a rule... rather than an exception.

 

Dan Carmichael

1 Year Ago


@Glenn
"I very rarely run across a contest that has enough validity to take seriously the image that won the contest. The best image very rarely wins"

On one hand, perhaps you mean the best image in your opinion.

On the other hand, if you are referring to vote soliciting, then yes... no doubt.

But in the case of vote solicitors, instead of anger or frustration, one should have pity and sympathy.

If a person takes so little pride, and has so little confidence in their work that they believe the only way they can win a contest is to unethically have people stuff the ballot box for them, then they have already lost before they even entered. Don't dislike theml Pity them.

 

@Dan...

Not to put a damper on those who win legitimately... only God knows who they are... but what I have written is my opinion, yes. I never said that the winners were not good pieces of art. Much of the time they are outrageously wonderful! But the system to get to the winner is the elephant.

So, I guess you could say yes, I am referring to vote soliciting, favoritism,a cumbersome and slow process to actually see every image, too many images involved, etc. etc. etc.

You say:

"If a person takes so little pride, and has so little confidence in their work that they believe the only way they can win a contest is to unethically have people stuff the ballot box for them, then they have already lost before they even entered. Don't dislike theml Pity them."

I don't take it serious enough to get to this stage of judgment or having to pity anybody. Juried Contests that happen in stages are the best IMO.

....This site is moving slowly again today and erasing what I had written earlier, while posting half the diatribe only. This is the second try.... Coffee please!

 

R Allen Swezey

1 Year Ago

Can someone tell me why it's a good idea to have more than one image per person per contest?

 

Mike Savad

1 Year Ago

like why there should be 3-5-10 images a person in the contest? for advertising mostly. some understand that and use it for that reason. others want to keep the numbers down so it's 1 for them.

---Mike Savad

 

Dan Carmichael

1 Year Ago

@Glenn

Slow ain't the word for it! My grass is growing faster, and it's winter! Probably server overload. Here's your coffee. Cream? Sugar? Cognac?

@Mike

I've thought about that. I.E., this philosophy that FAA has that solicitation for votes in social media brings people here. Yes, it does.

But then again, on the other hand wouldn't somebody announcing in social media "Hey everybody! W'e're having this fantastic photo contest over at FAA. Come on over and look at all the great pictures! Bring your kids and a picnic basket!"

Would it not accomplish the same thing? I think it would. How does the act of solicitation add any more interest than an open announcement? I don't think it does. In fact, if anything, I think the announcement of vote solicitation (that is, "cheating"), and FAA's official support of it, if anything brings a negative reputation to FAA.

"Do I really want to purchase art from a website that tells its members it's ok to cheat in contests?"

That may not be the way FAA wants to look at it, but it is the way others might.

 

Chuck De La Rosa

1 Year Ago

@Dan

"Do I really want to purchase art from a website that tells its members it's ok to cheat in contests?"

Do buyers really care? I ask because from my view, if I'm a buyer searching the site, what I'm looking for is pretty pictures to hang in my den, I couldn;t care less about contests I don't participate in.

 

Dan Carmichael

1 Year Ago


@Chuck

Well, we're not talking about contests, strictly. We're focusing on FAA's belief that vote solicitation in social media brings people -eyes- to FAA.

But you have a point, come to think of it, which is perhaps yet another strike against FAA's policy of promoting vote solicitation for the purpose of exposure.

And that is this:

Is solicitation traffic the same as buyer traffic? In other words:

"I'll go over to FAA to stuff the ballot box for my good friend Bob, but hey... while there I'll also purchase enough stuff to decorate that new beach house I just bought!"

I don't think so.

I think that people who stuff ballot boxes click a link, place the vote, and go as quickly away as they came.

 

Randall Arthur

1 Year Ago

It seems to be a kind of popularity contest anyway so why not just let the democratic process work itself out? Maybe the images were not the absolute best but I was not going to devote time to go through each one and then go back to revote on a select few. Sorry, but the time just isn't worth spending on that kind of voting. I like going through and allowing the pieces to jump out on a first impression basis and voting that way, I am not going to go back and spend the better part of a morning on second guessing.

 

Delete Delete

1 Year Ago

A single vote contest is "POINTLESS", as most contests allow a vote for your own image.

Who is not going to use the one vote, for their own image?

 

Janine Riley

1 Year Ago

Randall, forty votes - I give you credit. I run out of patience before I run out of pages. Does any one make it past page 17 or so ?

 

Dan Carmichael

1 Year Ago

Randall,

On the other hand, there is a valid argument against such voting.

What if you were an appointed jurist for a contest? Not only on FAA, but at your local artists association? Traditionally, you would have three votes to cast: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

I've been a jurist on FAA. And whether I like it or not, it has to be boiled down to three votes. Sometimes it's hard. On one contest I remember, the work was supurb. I had to whittle a dozen stunning pieces down to three, and it was painful.

Sorry, but forty selections is not "choosing the best". That's more like giving pats on the back to people who have done a good job.

 

Scotts Scapes

1 Year Ago

I have entered many contests and honestly, I don't really care if I win or not. Obviously I have an ego and would love to win, but after jumping quickly on my first few contests, I ceased most of my participation. For example, One contest I saw was created the other day 2 hours previous to my login on FAA. I submitted an image. When I went to vote days later, I knew I was image 40-something. I saw more than 500 images to vote on, and it took me almost 20 minutes of rapid fire clicking, just to reach my own image. After having to scroll through 450+ images just to get to my image, and to see the other first 40 images posted to the contest, I was beyond frustrated. It was apparent that one strategy to win any contest is to simply wait until image submission is set to expire, then try to get your image in the very last 20-40 submissions.

Really, the only way your image will ever be seen by anyone with a life, a job, a love, is if your image is accessible within a few minutes and a few clicks.

The linear display of the voting process is absolutely absurd! Tell me one good reason that out of 500+ images that ANY voter cannot see 5, 10, 15, 20 or even 50 thumbnails with the option to vote from that format...

Does anyone in management at FAA think that displaying 500 or 800 images one at a time, one page at a time, each requiring a click and load time...
Who at FAA, besides the code writers, thinks that 800 separate html pages is in any way shape or form of good, fair, even, equal, just, or even attractive format for data/vote acquisition?

I absolutely love FAA! I feel much gratitude, even a debt, towards FAA for all they provide for their small fee... However, these contests are at first enraging, lastly just simply stupid! The very format excludes and DISCOURAGES social participation and any sense of fairness or equality... NOT OF THE JUDGING, mind you, but way before any judgements or winners are selected, the contest are biased by the inaccessibility and linearity of the image presentation before judgment...

FAA really needs a re-design of the voting system to allow for multiple thumbnails per page where one can vote, a randomization algorithm that in some way, in any way, shape or form even s out or merely makes random the image presentation for voting to happen... Number votes is somewhat inconsequential when accessing contest images remains hugely problematic...

Just my 2 pennies on this Saturday morning...

 

Margaret Saheed

1 Year Ago

Scott, I used to wade through lots of images the way you do to vote! But this should help you - I suddenly realised that under Images you can see thirty images at a time on each page, just click an image you wish to vote for, vote, and then return to the Image pages to choose others. So you can start viewing at the last page or choose random pages in between if there are too many to view all the images. I feel that gives other images a chance to get votes, rather than the last ones entered.

I think there should be a limit on the number of votes so that the best images may have a chance. However I enter for the exposure and 'fun' and don't even think about winning and if I get one vote, I know it wasn't mine!

Edit: Voting would be easier if there were restrictions on the number of images per artist and/or the time limit to enter, eg I have just seen a contest with 3 images and 13 days to enter on a very popular, general subject. You would expect a huge number of images to view for voting!

 

Dan Carmichael

1 Year Ago

@Scott

"I have entered many contests and honestly, I don't really care if I win or not. Obviously I have an ego and would love to win, but after jumping quickly on my first few contests, I ceased most of my participation. For example, One contest I saw was created the other day 2 hours previous to my login on FAA. I submitted an image. When I went to vote days later, I knew I was image 40-something. I saw more than 500 images to vote on, and it took me almost 20 minutes of rapid fire clicking, just to reach my own image. After having to scroll through 450+ images just to get to my image, and to see the other first 40 images posted to the contest, I was beyond frustrated. It was apparent that one strategy to win any contest is to simply wait until image submission is set to expire, then try to get your image in the very last 20-40 submissions.

Really, the only way your image will ever be seen by anyone with a life, a job, a love, is if your image is accessible within a few minutes and a few clicks.

The linear display of the voting process is absolutely absurd! Tell me one good reason that out of 500+ images that ANY voter cannot see 5, 10, 15, 20 or even 50 thumbnails with the option to vote from that format...

Does anyone in management at FAA think that displaying 500 or 800 images one at a time, one page at a time, each requiring a click and load time...
Who at FAA, besides the code writers, thinks that 800 separate html pages is in any way shape or form of good, fair, even, equal, just, or even attractive format for data/vote acquisition?

I absolutely love FAA! I feel much gratitude, even a debt, towards FAA for all they provide for their small fee... However, these contests are at first enraging, lastly just simply stupid! The very format excludes and DISCOURAGES social participation and any sense of fairness or equality... NOT OF THE JUDGING, mind you, but way before any judgements or winners are selected, the contest are biased by the inaccessibility and linearity of the image presentation before judgment...

FAA really needs a re-design of the voting system to allow for multiple thumbnails per page where one can vote, a randomization algorithm that in some way, in any way, shape or form even s out or merely makes random the image presentation for voting to happen... Number votes is somewhat inconsequential when accessing contest images remains hugely problematic...

Just my 2 pennies on this Saturday morning... "


Well said, and all points are on target.

Not to mention that I am not convinced that participating in contests, even winning them, does anything whatsoever to boost and increase sales.

Whatever time is spent participating in contests might be much better spent promoting one's own work using other methods.

 

There are changes planned in 2013 and the contests and groups are among these, re the suggestions thread

However, it is the admins who make that may images available. Yes, they are given a choice but they choose to use the 10 images per artist

 

This discussion is closed.