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Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Copyright Concerns......

I know I am getting advice here from the internet which is not ideal, but I am pretty sure I am correct in my assumptions here and just want confirmation from the peanut gallery.

I had one of my images taken from fine art america and posted on Facebook. They linked my description as well, as well as a little poem they wrote. They did credit me, and as such since this is a facebook page and not something being sold for profit, their use was ok because it was linked and credited? I am not really upset by the usage because it does contain a link to my work, just making sure I am right in thinking there is no laws being broken here.

The only reason I knew about it was he called me. He said he is publishing a book with a story about a backroads traveler that goes through Kansas, and wanted to know if he could use my photo in the book for credit and a link to the image. I respectfully declined since he wasn't willing to pay for the image, to which he replied "We have a 1.5 million reader audience, that one link will generate a TON of money for you." I then replied, "If you have a 1.5 million person audience, I would think you would have a budget to pay for images for your project." We ended the call soon after.

https://www.facebook.com/TravelerOntheBackroads?filter=1 here is the page, its quite a ways down.

http://fineartamerica.com/featured/through-the-bedroom-window-thomas-zimmerman.html Here is my photo on FAA.

Anyways, I have no claims right? He did things on the up and up?

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Dan Turner

11 Months Ago

If you allow someone to put your image in front of potentially 1.5 million people, what are the chances you'll make a sale? Or several sales? Or find a few people who are interested in your work and add them to your mailing list?

Or you could sue that guy for using your work on his FB page (47,302 likes) and giving you full credit. What's the better move here?

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

 

Donna Proctor

11 Months Ago

Thomas,

I'm not on FB so anything I could offer about that particular situation wouldn't be worth a pile of salt. That said, I might be bothered by the fact that he knows me, and didn't ask if I'd be OK with his adding a "little poem" to my artwork. I'd expect that from someone who doesn't know me...

Regarding - "...I respectfully declined since he wasn't willing to pay for the image, to which he replied "We have a 1.5 million reader audience, that one link will generate a TON of money for you." I then replied, "If you have a 1.5 million person audience, I would think you would have a budget to pay for images for your project." We ended the call soon after."

I got a good LOL over that. I'm trying to recall how many times I've heard from inquirers who want to use my images for free and tell me just how much exposure I'll get from it. I like to tell them to pay me, and I'll deal with any consequences later... I've also said I'd allow free use if they can guarantee me in writing that I will get sales from their exposure.

Interesting thread and I'll be checking in to read the comments by the "more educated!"

--Donna Proctor

Edit - Hold the phones...I completely missed that HE uploaded your image from FAA. Baaaa... Baaad Boy! That's a deal changer for me! I'd have a problem with him lifting my image off of FAA and taking it upon himself to post it to FB...no permission issue, and the rest of my original comment applies...


 

Mark Tisdale

11 Months Ago

Thomas, it's ultimately your decision if you're fine with it or not.. I didn't see the photo in question, but if he actually uploaded the image to Facebook (rather than simply shared a link to it here on FAA), then that's technically copyright infringement. Simple attribution might alleviate your concerns and your desire to follow up on it, but it doesn't change the fact it was done without your consent. How you react to it is your choice.

 

Susan Wiedmann

11 Months Ago

He used your image without permission. How is that on the "up and up?"

I think you can contact Facebook and they will make him take it off his FB page.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Dan like I said, I am not particularly upset by the use on FB, he did credit me, and link to the image. This is more of a discussion as to if there were any laws broken, I like to make sure I understand copyright use, I am NOT contemplating a lawsuit over this.

As far as being offered to be put in a publication with no monetary compensation, if it doesn't say "National Geographic" on the front, I'm not interested. I derive a portion of my income from these image sales, and I want to grow that portion exponentially as time goes on, and that hopefully includes sales of images to publications. If I do not place a value on my work....who will?

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Mark that puts my mind a little clearer, linking directly to it is fine, but taking it and uploading it is not. That I think is correct.....

 

Chet Dembeck

11 Months Ago

CED

 

Phyllis Wolf

11 Months Ago

Technically he infringed by not asking permission for use. But he gave you credit and linked back to you so you haven't suffered any loss to claim damages. He is using you to promote but he's also promoting you so no loss. If you don't want to be associated then you can send him a polite take down notice but you can only ask him to take it down. You could report the image to Facebook but there's a chance that could put a red flag on your image as improper content and red flag it negatively. Other than asking him to remove it you really have no recourse legally that I see right now because you haven't suffered any damages, financially or by character. So far what he's done is ethically wrong by not getting permission but by attributing credit and linkage he hasn't harmed you....in fact he's helped advertise your work. If he does publish it in a book without your permission then you may have a claim. I am not a lawyer though so seek legal counsel if that happens. You would be wasting your time and money seeking legal counsel for this at this stage though, imo.

 

Mark Tisdale

11 Months Ago

Thomas - *if* you want it removed, Facebook certainly will. I have requested it in some instances.

Their own terms state that you should only upload what you have the legal right to upload:

https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

Scroll down to the section labeled - Protecting Other People's Rights

End of the day, whatever people here advise, you have to do what works for you. Just remember, this guy is not handing out free publicity. Anything he does is ultimately done to his benefit. If you can make it also work to your benefit as well, great, but the content he's sharing on his page is all about getting more eyes on his page for whatever it is that he's selling.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Agreed Phyllis, I have no damages claim, its not registered, and there is no monetary damages. Book would be another story. Maybe I spend the $30 and register it just in case.

 

Phyllis Wolf

11 Months Ago

Gorgeous image by the way. Good luck!

P.S. It doesn't have to be registered since copyright is implicit. BUT when going to court it is much better for you if it has been registered.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Mark, once again very well put. I have no interest in letting him use the image for the publication without compensation, $1 in the hand now is worth much much more than the "publicity" he is offering. I think I will sleep on it tonight and decide in the morning if I will request the image be taken down from Facebook.

Thanks to all for their input, its appreciated.

 

Donna Proctor

11 Months Ago

I know so little about FB and your red flag comment is a good point, Phyllis.

Generally speaking - I don't know if they're like Google - I've had a few issues where I asked 2 people who lifted my images off of FAA to at least credit me if they were going to use them on their site and blogs. Since they ignored my email requests, I sent take-downs to Google (where I saw the infringements) and they removed the images within less than 2 weeks from my complaint. I was willing to forgo any exposure/free advertising I *might* have received from them since they ignored my attempts to reach them. And, I was sure they received at least one of my requests since I sent it to more than one of their email addresses.

--Donna Proctor

Edit: Mark, excellent info re's FB, thank you!

 

Roy Erickson

11 Months Ago

Him doing the "right thing" would have been to ask and you to say sure, and thank you - remember me if you publish this in a book.

 

Mark Tisdale

11 Months Ago

http://www.invention-protection.com/ip/publications/docs/Copyright_myths.html - there doesn't have to be a monetary gain/loss to claim copyright infringement. It would make it far more attractive to a lawyer though!

And FYI for any time this happens, the only penalty on Facebook would be towards the person who you reported for infringing your work and then only if Facebook finds them to be a repeat offender (honestly quite unlikely from what I've seen/heard).

Facebook makes you go through a half dozen pages of explanation on copyright before you can find the link to their form to request content be removed, but this is the direct link to that form should you or anyone else ever need it.

https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/208282075858952

Glad the info. I shared was helpful whatever course you decide. :-)

 

Deborah Smolinske

11 Months Ago

Actually, there's one thing I noted here. This guy has your work listed on his FB page like this:

The Kansas sun through the window of an abandoned and forgotten limestone house in Ellis County. This was a bedroom window, and you have to wonder through this window what breathtaking beauty was watched by the family who built and lived in the house originally.

~ Michael Traveler, author of MIRACLE ROAD

~ photo by Thomas Zimmerman


That makes it look like *he* wrote the description and you just took the photo. When I look at your image on FAA, I see the description is what *you* wrote. Regardless of whether you want to let it slide that he "borrowed" your image, I'd want him to change it to reflect that *you* wrote those words. Otherwise, you could someday find yourself being accused of stealing from him in your description!

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Yes I know copyright is implicit....you have to be registered to get anything but actual damages (unless they remove a watermark). I was just saying if it was registered, and it got published in a book, there would be punitive damages.

I agree Deborah that it makes him sound like he wrote that......and ultimately that is probably why I plan at this point to ask to have it removed.

 

Susan Wiedmann

11 Months Ago

Thomas, in your bio you don't mention anything, not even a brief sentence, about copyright to your images. I know it's implicit, but the average person might not be aware of that, or else they will play dumb and lift images with the excuse copyright wasn't mentioned on your page.

 

Justin Green

11 Months Ago

If his Facebook page is a business Facebook page, then he is using your image to gain business or promote business.
First off you should make a screen grab of your image on his page. Make sure the screen grab contains the Web address in the top of grab.
I would also fill out a DMCA on Facebook.

You can take it further if you wish and bill him or contact Imagerights to get them to chase.

The bullsh1t about people seeing your image in his book, nah, don't offer anything for free. I get that so many times.

 

Kerri Mortenson

11 Months Ago

I saw that he had a link to your FAA site, BUT, does the link follow the photo if the image is shared (as it has been done about 57 times).

 

Lynn Bauer

11 Months Ago

FYI - There are quite a number of images from FAA artists on his site. You may want to check through his images for yours. I know he had 1 of mine & a number of other people that I know.

 

Susan Wiedmann

11 Months Ago

Abbie, do you know the answer to Kerri's question: "I saw that he had a link to your FAA site, BUT, does the link follow the photo if the image is shared (as it has been done about 57 times)."

Thanks.

 

Dan Turner

11 Months Ago

"The bullsh1t about people seeing your image in his book, nah, don't offer anything for free."

Few photographers have that kind of leverage anymore. This isn't 1980. It is possible for any good curator with mediocre negotiating skills to publish a book with high-quality images, and not pay dime one for any of them. More and more photographers are not even expecting credit lines. Play hard to get and there are 3000 photographers lined up right behind you ready to give it away.

The only way to get paid going forward is to be more important than your photos. Photos they can get anywhere, but there is only one you.

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

I vehemently disagree Dan.....people can, do, and will pay for good photography. I am doing pretty well for myself with a portfolio of under 75 photos, have even licensed a few for calendars, brochures, and books.

 

Justin Green

11 Months Ago

Disagree 100% Dan

 

Dan Turner

11 Months Ago

Guys, I was talking about the kind of book the FB perp is putting together. Commercial photographers still make good money. I hire them myself from time to time.

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

The following message was sent to the Facebook page this morning. We will see how he responds.

"To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you in regards to my photo being posted on your "Traveler On The Backroads" Facebook page. The photo's title is "Through The Bedroom Window." Although you did link to the sales site of my photograph, downloading it and placing it on your page without my permission constitutes copyright infringement. In addition, I feel you posted my description of the photograph in such a way that it doesn't credit me as the author and in fact takes credit for the description for yourself. I have taken the necessary steps to document the infringement on my behalf. At this time, If you simply remove the image from your page I will consider the matter resolved in its entirety. Your cooperation in this matter is appreciated.

Regards,

Thomas Zimmerman
Crossroads Photography"

 

JC Findley

11 Months Ago

That should do it.

 

JC Findley

11 Months Ago

Oh, and no, I do not ever allow my images to be used for "exposure" as exposure leading to sales is a myth.

 

Robert Frank Gabriel

11 Months Ago

If anyone wants to use my work, feel free. Just give me credit. The way I see it, fine art america uses my work and I even pay them $30.00 a year.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Robert that is a completely valid viewpoint, just not one that I share. I seriously doubt of all those views and shares have generated me any sales. Had the owner of the Facebook page had the respect to ASK if he could post it, I may very well have given him permission. Thats now how this went down, however.

 

Gina Hyde

11 Months Ago

He sounded like a scammer. Usually from what I hear books go with their publishers illustator's artist or the publisher will pay the Artist up front unless its not done . Then they pay half in half.

 

Ginny Schmidt

11 Months Ago

I did scroll down far enough to see your image on his FB page and, from everything else on his site, it looks like he is in the habit of trolling art sites and picking up other peopls's work. If everyone asked, as you did, for him to take their images down, he would have nothing left for his page.

My question is has your image had a noticeable increase in views since he posted it on FB? Would it please you to have a substantial increase in the view count from this Fb link?

I am on FB and considered
(A) sharing that image from his page to mine to see whether the link and comments transfer - which I think they would, if not on my FB wall, then in the detailed list of comments that are shown on the right when someone clicks on the picture for an enlarged view.
and (B) adding a comment of my own to those on his page to the effect that "The artist and copyright owner of this artwork might appreciate it if you would click on the link provided to that image on Fine Art America, from which it was lifted without permission."

Of course I would do neither of those things without positive feedback from the OP.

ADDED: Oh and the man's FB page seems to be all about ethics, morals, and right living, which makes it ironic that he would steal the material he posts on it.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Ginny you are welcome to do either of those things if you so choose, but I don't think either are necessary, like I said I am not entirely bent out of shape about all of this, Hopefully he will just take it down and I can move on.

I can tell you there is not a noticeable uptick in views when he posted it, not really at all. Zero sales have come from his page because I have sold the image zero times since then. Have sold 2 copies locally since then though! :).

 

Tony Murray

11 Months Ago

Nice Work !

Photography Prints

 

Donna Proctor

11 Months Ago

@ Gina - I would have thought so also, but as my "college textbook" thread shows, no, that's not necessarily true! :)

@ Thomas - Very professional, succinct and to the point. Well written!

@ JC - I'm with you... nothing is free for me; why should what I work hard at be, for anyone else? Especially when there are companies who will and DO pay, as noted in the above mentioned comment.

--Donna Proctor

 

Ginny Schmidt

11 Months Ago

OK so now I DID both things and I was right about (A) - the FAA link does carry over, not on my wall but to the right when someone clicks for a better view of the picture.

Regarding your request to the guy to take the picture down, he might be more inclined to do so with my comment right at the top - unless of course he simply hides the comment.

https://www.facebook.com/ginny.schmidt.33

ADDED: OK now I am really confused - Yes I shared the picture and I did see the FAA link on the enlarged image. but I go to my FB wall now and the whole post is not there. What's up with that?

go figure.

anyway it was an interesting exercise.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Sorry didn't see your other question Ginny.....no views don't make me happy, they mean nothing really, only sales do. I don't believe the followers of that page do so so that they can buy the art thats posted there, and thats the bottom line. I post my work on a few pages that regularly generate my sales.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

He just removed the image, which is why its not not showing on your wall Ginny.

 

Ginny Schmidt

11 Months Ago

OK then, I guess we got 'I'm.

Maybe view count doesn't really mean anything, but I am addicted to mine - if I ever rack up thousands of views per picture and a lot more in the way of sales, I will probably care less about people looking, but the one thing I know is they can't buy if they don't see it and, right now, that's all I have to go on.

This was fun.

Thanks.

 

Donna Proctor

11 Months Ago

Success rarely comes that quickly ;)

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Views are views, its making sure interested buyers are viewing your images is the key to success.

 

Dennis Coates

11 Months Ago

Hi everyone,
I just joined FAA yesterday but, I am curious about what FAA's take is on this issue since they say right up front how secure your photo's are. Has anyone ever addressed this with them?

Dennis

 

Isabella F Abbie Shores

11 Months Ago

Unfortunately no site can protect work from thieves who are adamant on having an image that is on their page.

As soon as you go to a site, the image is on your computer. No right click or watermark stops that. All images go straight into a temp folder and can be grabbed from there by people who want it. That is how browsers are designed to make the browsing and speed more efficient.

I only have to make a screenshot and I have any image I want, from any site.

We do however, counter this with these options

1. We have no right click on some pages
2. We offer a watermark. However, you do need to add that at upload as, if you change your mind later you will need to reload the image to add it. Also it does put buyers off.
3. Enlarging any thumbnails degrades the quality of the image terribly so it is useless for a print. Remember if they want the image for a phone wallpaper etc there is NOTHING we can do to stop that, even phones have screenshot takers
4. Your full resolution image is hidden away so people only see the low resolution copy
5. On the full resolution preview on the main image pages, it only shows a small section and a border is actually removed. That way, even if people took the time to open all the full resolution image and copied each segment to stitch together, they would not get the complete image.

So we do more than many art sites do and your full images are safe. The low resolution thumbnails and preview images are as safe as we can make them

You need to look on the site which is stealing the work and find a contact link. Then you need to file a DMCA notice (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) I have single image notices on my personal site and a sample http://1stangel.co.uk/cease-and-desist-letters/

Unfortunately these need to be sent in by the artist themselves to the site stealing them or to the server host of that site.

You can also find that here http://www.whois.com/



 

Kathi Shotwell

11 Months Ago

I don't get a good vibe from this guy and I think I'd have done the same in this particular situation. I have a few that I watermark and make available for sharing or other non-commercial use. I realize we can't stop this but it still is a bit irritating. They didn't have as much of this problem back in the day of the old masters; this is one of the effects of the internet and modern media that also gives us the ability to sell online.

This guy's got over 4,000 timeline pictures. Many are repeated multiple times. He has a bunch from Debra and Dave V. with link to their website & FAA profile, I wonder if they gave him permission. I'd rather see a "used with permission" blurb added to the ones he actually has permission to use. He also has images taken from blogs & other FB users, who often are using stolen or "borrowed" art in the first place... and from websites including photo business and other business sites (ex. architecture firm w/ pic of bldg they designed, or log cabincompany), with links to those sites. And quite a few with artist name but no link at all. Some have watermarks, some don't. The problem is he takes from the site and then uploads as if it were his own. Then it gets shared a bazillion times and the link does not always follow b/c it's not always in his caption - often in a later post. Seems like he goes by the rule "Do it first, and maybe or maybe not ask permission later."

Oh and there is another user called Wanderlust, this Traveler guy gets some of his from them... they have a whole gallery of Leonid Afremov's work with his name on them but no links at all... sheesh...

 

Dennis Coates

11 Months Ago

Isabella,

Thank you for the update.

Dennis

 

Gunter Nezhoda

11 Months Ago

@Dan

"Few photographers have that kind of leverage anymore. This isn't 1980. It is possible for any good curator with mediocre negotiating skills to publish a book with high-quality images, and not pay dime one for any of them. More and more photographers are not even expecting credit lines. Play hard to get and there are 3000 photographers lined up right behind you ready to give it away."

3000 photographers will stand in line to give their work away without credits. I could write 2 pages of comment on this,but I don't want to waste mine time in another one of those threads.
The sad thing is that some people actually might believe you. Where do you get those statements from, what is that based on?


"The only way to get paid going forward is to be more important than your photos. Photos they can get anywhere, but there is only one you."

The only way to get my photos for free is if you are more important than your book, and you have a record of selling more than a million copies and then I want credit in at least 3 places in bold font

Please stick with what you know Dan, if you make comments like this.

 

Dan Turner

11 Months Ago

"Where do you get those statements from, what is that based on?"

It's based on 30+ years as a Creative Director, Art Director, Graphic Designer, Copywriter and Ad Agency Owner.

Hopefully those credentials work for you, Gunter.

I buy and sell a lot of commercial photography. I use a lot of stock images. I hire professional photographers for commercial assignments.

When I have clients who don't need custom images, I know where and how to get high-resolution images for absolutely nothing. Legally. On just about any subject. Every art director does. Have you heard of Creative Commons? Flickr? We just had a big discussion here two weeks ago on how and where to get free images. Links to 30 different websites were listed. You posted several times in it, but it's obvious you weren't paying attention.

"3000 photographers will stand in line to give their work away without credits."

OK, I was being a little crazy. The number is much larger than that.

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

 

JC Findley

11 Months Ago

There are a couple reasons I don't give my art away for free "exposure."

1. Exposure, at least the way most people sell it, does not lead to actual sales and actual money.

2. I simply choose not to do it.

I suppose it can lead to bragging rights and for that matter, the right exposure could actually lead to sales but those opportunities are few and far between.

I don't surf the web looking for sites to serve DMCA notices as it simply isn't worth my time but I also don't volunteer my work for free either.

 

Isabella F Abbie Shores

11 Months Ago

"Few photographers have that kind of leverage anymore. This isn't 1980. It is possible for any good curator with mediocre negotiating skills to publish a book with high-quality images, and not pay dime one for any of them. More and more photographers are not even expecting credit lines. Play hard to get and there are 3000 photographers lined up right behind you ready to give it away."


Unfortunately, Dan is right. When I first started being self employed as an artist, part of my income was made up of phone cases and themes (lol) I would spend hours composing ringtones, designing themes, from the pointer to the wallpapers etc. Then the market expanded and everyone could make them (and did) almost giving them away. What I had been making pounds on, I now had to cut to a few pennies to compete. I then had to drop them as a load of people came and just gave them away. Now of course everyone can put o their own wallpapers and the theme pretty much stays the same. I have been asked to do it again but I cannot be bothered to be honest.

Newspapers is a great example where home photographers are crippling their professional friends. Where once they would pay to have good quality photographs for a news story, they now use free, sent in photos and videos from everyday people who are just happy to see their work up. Photographers are going out of business

I was offered the job of doing a wedding. I gave them a good price, cut a LOT because I like them and they are family. They used one of the uncles because he has a new photozoom camera and would do it for nothing.....no bad feelings? Guess what. The photographs were a disaster and I had to step in and change some of them into a digital work instead. Lesson learned for them and yes, I charged full price, but the wedding was ruined by bad photography because people GIVE them away with no skill whatsoever.

People out there will give things away because they think they are doing good or because they do not believe in charging. Some people are desperate to be noticed and may be excellent at what they do but just want their work out there. They do not realise (or perhaps they do) that they are bringing the whole profession down.

So professionals have to change the game plan. They work harder at getting the right contacts and the right jobs and they make themselves indispensable

I think this is a phase and I do see people who did use free actually paying when they have some thing important. But, at present, publishers can get 100 photographers say yes to appearing on the front cover of a book, appearing in a newspaper or giving work for a book charging absolutely nothing

and, before asking, this is 10 years on the art industry and online publishing, plus what I have seen here behind the scenes

 

Dan Turner

11 Months Ago

Just so we're clear on the type of photos that can be had for free: Images similar to the OPs dreamy "looking through a window onto a landscape", which BTW is a super shot. There are literally millions of free to low-cost photos that a publisher can add a bit of verse to and build a nice coffee table book.

However, if the client wants a similar through-window-shot but wants to include the latest fashion model for a spread in Vogue, or if the shot must have the model stepping out of her new Range Rover...yes, major bucks will be paid to everyone involved.

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

 

JC Findley

11 Months Ago

There may be thousands of images that are conceptually similar, but if you want a local image that was shot in Kansas or Ellis County, and there is a market for that, you will have to pay for it.

So, why won't models work for exposure? I mean, there are thousands of those as well.....

 

Delete Delete

11 Months Ago

@ Thomas,

Gorgeous shots!! I am just curious as to what camera you are using?

---------------------------------------


@ Dan,

Could "Creative Commons" images have a bit of verse added to them and then be sold as prints on a site like this?

 

Delete Delete

11 Months Ago

JC,

There are plenty of models who will work for free just to build a portfolio.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Ok Dan lets test the theory....post a link to another shot thats very similar to what I posted available for free. I can't find one, but admittedly I don't spend alot of time doing this nor do I have your experience. I feel its a pretty unique shot, definitely not perfect, but its always been one of my most popular shot based on the feel it gives I think.

And if you find one for that....how about this one....
Photography Prints

Or this one....
Art Prints

Or maybe this one.....
Photography Prints

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

And to JC's point, the barn with the storm.....that barn is right outside Quinter, KS. I have sold close to $1000 worth of prints in that town because so many people know the barn and drive by it every day. As far as quick profit, it stands head and shoulders above the rest.

The sunflower shot and the combine and grain cart shot long term are my biggest sellers, both locally, and on FAA. I think its because there is very little artwork out there like it.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

11 Months Ago

Oh and FWIW Fine Art America does a fine job of protecting our files, people being able to get them via screenshot....etc, is just the nature of the beast.

 

JC Findley

11 Months Ago

And that was my point TbN, why pay a model when you can find one to work for free? Same concept there as with art. IF you want a brand model though, you will have to pay for it.

Want an unknown generic artist, hit Flickr. Want quality work from a local artist that has the image you really want, they pay the piper.

 

Gunter Nezhoda

11 Months Ago

@Abbie

With all respect, here's the explanation in your own words why this exposure/compete theory is wrong.

"I was offered the job of doing a wedding. I gave them a good price, cut a LOT because I like them and they are family. They used one of the uncles because he has a new photozoom camera and would do it for nothing.....no bad feelings? Guess what. The photographs were a disaster and I had to step in and change some of them into a digital work instead. Lesson learned for them and yes, I charged full price, but the wedding was ruined by bad photography because people GIVE them away with no skill whatsoever."

Most people and companies who are serious about what they do, know that you get what you pay for. Companies and individuals who use the FREE service are in most cases bottom feeders themselfes. You will not find a reputable company using free images. An advertising company that does that, puts their client in an extremely high risk.
Images from the net, offered for free, are many times stolen. And as you found out, uncles with cameras can save you a few hundred but mess up the maybe most important day of your live, with no chance of recovery. Make your choice

Art Prints

 

Isabella F Abbie Shores

11 Months Ago

But you DO find people (reputable) taking free images. I am sorry but you DO.

They may find out later they were wrong but they do do it

I have numerous examples of this in Support but I am not going to give any. Just be assured that when many reputable people find out they have to PAY for the image they move on to get a freebie for their book etc and, some people on this very site have given away their work after being contacted and told there is no money for the item (which is generally a fib)

Just a fact that talking about and denying is not going to make go away

 

JC Findley

11 Months Ago

Gunter,

I have found that if my wedding pics are messed up I can always get more at my next wedding.

 

Gunter Nezhoda

11 Months Ago

@JC lol

@Abbie, I understand your point, and yes they are out there, but I and many others I know do get hired and make money.
You just need to be careful who you network with and discard clients that don't want to pay.
I'm sure once in a while, one of those freebie photographers get's a lucky shot, but if a client needs consistent performance, they will hire and pay well.
It is not hopeless yet, just adjust and market yourself so customers understand why they pay.
At least that's what I believe, and it works for me ..............

And I agree, denying is not the right thing to do, but so is also not reacting or not trying to make a change and take it as edged in stone, and the worst thing ............ joining and working for free too.
Rember, EVERYBODY said you can't fly, till the Wright Brothers came along.


PS:
Sorry I have to go sell a lens, rent is due in 2 days :)

 

Kathi Shotwell

11 Months Ago

@JC - come over here and clean off my monitor now! LMAO @ that!

 

John Bushnell

9 Months Ago

Interesting. I am interested in knowing if Facebook can do anything the want with our FAA facebook notification and our photo that goes with it. Do I lose my copyright to Facebook?
John

 

Ken McDougal

9 Months Ago

There are some publications (usually non profit organizations and some religious books or mags) that truthfully don't have a large budget (or any at all) and will only offer to give you a credit line, but if they do, they usually have it stated up front in their terms. But I say GOOD FOR YOU Thomas! I think you handled that situation like a true professional. If they have a readership of 1.5 million, then chances are, they have a budget to pay for photography. Exposure doesn't guarantee sales. It still amazes me how some people think that they can "wheel and deal" a photographer into using their images for free. Personally, I don't ever "barter" for my images. If someone wants to use one of my shots, they will have to pay for the "rights usage" just like everyone else.

 

Valerie Bruno

9 Months Ago

Maybe help on answering copyright laws.

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

I've been reading about them and they are full of loop holes. I do believe that artist should copyright their portfolios and other important things.
Encryption can also help.
ethics also play a roll. If you can't get permission to copy it DO NOT use it. It is not yours, it belongs to the original artist, period.


 

This discussion is closed.