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Skip Hunt

While waiting for a return flight in the Ft. Lauderdale airport... they were playing that clip of McCain taking the mic away from that lady who said Obama was an Arab..etc. (does anyone think those were setup plants to give McCain the opportunity to look level-headed and not so divisive?).

Anyway, this older dude came up to my business partner who's about 15 years older than me... and I guess he assumed my partner was a republican (he's not). He leaned over and said "I really HATED it when McCain did that.." I jumped in and asked "did what?"... he said he hated that McCain had said nice things about Obama. I asked why that bothered him and he said Obama has never had a job in his life and he couldn't vote for him. I told him none of these yahoos have likely ever had real jobs. I'm certain Bush and Cheney never had real jobs either. So I asked him what was REALLY bothering him about Obama. He then started parroting sound bites from FOX news and talking about the "terrorist palling around... ACORN.. etc." I told him he's watching too much FOX news and that he should dig a little deeper for information before he starts spouting off sound bites. Asked him to come clean and tell me why he REALLY didn't like Obama.

At this point there was a small crowd around us getting into their own arguments, but a surprising amount of people who supported this idiot. He then said he simply couldn't vote for a "black" and that he resented that if Obama doesn't get elected the "blacks" will all riot. AND get this... he was yelling at this point and said that if there were a fund being collected to have Obama assassinated... he'd be first in line to contribute.

This wasn't just one sour old man... there seemed to be a fair amount of others in the group (granted all older, affluent, and white) who agreed with him.

Very scary.

I figured they were all retired Floridian repiglicans... but they were all going to Ohio. Not sure if they lived in Fla. and were traveling to Ohio.. or the other way around.

I was very surprised at what I heard and how they didn't seem to hide their racism at all. They were yelling this crap outloud in an airport terminal with about a third of the other passengers being African American. Was surprised that none of the other passengers of color jumped into the fray. They mostly just looked a little scared.

Really got me thinking about ol' Karl Rove.... the whether or not there really is a Biblical "beast"...... "turning Man against his brother, 'til Man exists no more."

Kevin Callahan

Hate it with all my heart. Can't say a man my age can't express somethings from time to time that might raise eyebrows but that's what makes us human. Almost all of our presidential races in recent history have been about race in one way or another. This bunch in now merely brought it to an art form. They also bought some major media outlets then spread the rumors of the liberal press, which is often anything but liberal. Even the venerable (and liberal) New York Times prints op ed pieces repeating the awful lies about Obama and then calls that balanced reporting. Good God!

Carmen Hathaway

when words fail me.     To The Victor

Charles Peck

these lilly white, milquetoast,gated community insular republicans are not the economic conservatives of the days past.
They are mostly the Dixie-crats who ran from the Democrat Party in the late 60's when their apartied, segregated racism was outlawed by the Federal Government.
They scurried under the folds of the republican patriotic banner like rats under a hay pile. They have learned to parrot any "cue" phrase that hides their evil soul behind whatever is the current accepted social norm.
They understand each other ... I have heard many, local business owners voice similar sentiments but of course never saying "they would do the job", just that it is what they expect to happen if "their man" doesn't make it.
McCain and all those who expect to profit from enhancing virulant racism of the United States of America should be charged with insighting riotous, or terroist behavior and have their duplictious ass put in prison.
Or so it seems to me.

Margot Koefod

and unfortunately reality...

this so outrageous ... I am so mad just reading you.. it's good I wasn't there..i would be in jail right now for trying to strangle this f@@@ing idiot.
I slapped a guy few months ago who made a comment in this line of thinking..I didn't really think it came out spontaneously..then I freaked out.. the guy was about 6 feet tall [ I'm a peanut!! LOL] but he was so shocked and surprised and vexed that he faked to be "amuzed" and laughed and left....oh..got the chills just thinking about it afterwards....

Kevin Callahan

No matter the right thing, spending sometime in jail for assault and battery is not cool. Listen I grew around rednecks and have many friends who are right wing. It does no go to harangue and argue... I say just live a better life (your self) and correct them gently when they over step their bounds.

Jessica Mason

Not the bigotry of course, that the easy part. Ignorance is easy to understand and it will continue to breed whether we like it or not. Guess that is their right, since I can’t be Queen.

However, the fact that someone would hate to the point of taking away life. Come On, for as long as I live I will never understand this.

I grew up in D.C. and now live about an hour west in a very conservative part of the state. Unfortunately, we encounter narrow-mindedness often in these hills; it is very difficult for me to accept but we choose to be tolerant of all, not just people like us. I feel Everyone has a right to an opinion. This man you spoke to Skip has certainly breeched a line though. Just the thought of taking a life, or treating another human with disrespect simply to justify a need to feel superior, for power or for pure evil, whatever the reason, could anyone be a lower human?

We have actually seen the opposite, we have watched as people dropped the idea’s of their for-father’s to do what is best for the country. We have seen people ignore race, gender, and political affiliation. Most of them will still carry on, even pass down their belief’s no matter how wrong they are but I have actually seem some progress on this subject.

I feel pity for that man; it is not possible feel peace when you bound by hate. I just hope he does not pass on the disease.
Just my thought’s

Songs of Thunder Fine Art Gallery

One wants to be VERY careful about hauling off and clocking some idiot...even if you are outraged at their behavior. Striking, slapping, punching and slugging someone are all forms of assault and battery--most of the time it is in the 4th degree but it can be charged as a felony depending on the circumstances.

The person Skip encountered at the airport is guilty of racism but more than that, his actions provoked extreme responses from the bystanders nearby. That was his exact motive. We are supposed to be civilized people but the line between what is civilized and what is criminal is too often crossed. Again, I caution: do not haul off and belt someone because they have crossed the line. Even tapping someone on the shoulder or pushing a finger into their chest can be construed as assault and the consequences are not pretty. It is far better to smile and walk away.

Charles Peck

just telling someone your going to kick their arse is called 'assault' - the battery part coming from the touching part. As much fun as it is to knock an ass on his ass it best left to the young and very fit (or those who just don't give a damn) not only because it will escalate (all part of the fun when young) and various elements of social order can get involved with your immediate destiny but worst of all you have not defeated the base argument of "might is right".
All lower echelon humans resort to force when they can no longer think of a way to convince others of the correctness of their position. Higher echelon humans use it from time to time but only for short term benefits that demonstrably out weigh the costs. It has no long term advantage.

Nonetheless I heartily disagree with the notion to leave quietly by the backdoor - one must engage evil when one finds it. The quiet citizens of Somalia, Darfur, Ruwanda, Cambodia, Soviet Union, Germany, and Turkey/Albania (and the US as well as many others) are what made possible the horrid genocidal slaughters in their regions.

I think in Florida the sob in question was/is guilty of assault in the very least. An informed officer of the court could well have ended his hate speech threatening the death of a public figure.

Floyd Gentry

I read the latest Rolling Stone article on McCain, it's what I thought might be the truth about him, sadly a lot of it came from McCain's book. Remarkably him and W had the same life except George was a better pilot. I ca't wait to see Oliver's movie, I did 3 movies with Oliver and this bodes to be fair and balanced. So guys lets get all mavericky!

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print

Floyd Gentry

I think unless your defending yourself, people get violent when they can't think anymore. And there are way too many thoughtless people.
I always wanted to vote for a black female, that just happened to be a lesbian for president, but I'm almost 60 and it looks bleak. pray for me--phloid

Songs of Thunder Fine Art Gallery

Of course, Charles, your answer is correct in that the SOB in Florida could and probably should be charged with threatening a public figure. Keeping one's hands to themself is not to be misconstrued as cowardly behavior or ignoring social threats or barbarity.

We cannot ignore the horrors of dictatorships that butcher their people like cattle. We do have to get at the root of the evil. And getting there sometimes is a painful, slow and costly process. On the one hand we have folks who do not wish to engage in war and on the other, we have folks who pick up arms whenever they can. Hawks and doves. The balance between those two polarities provides the greatest amount of freedom for the greatest number of people. Ergo, we have organized militaries and police departments with courts of law to administer the laws of the land. That is called civilization.

Listening to a horse's ass in an airport makes about as much sense as listening to a puppet dictator from some Third World country. They both have selfish agendas.

Floyd Gentry

I've been cleared by the secret service and around more than a few presidents and the secret service would love that guys name

Charles Peck

I suspect the chump got lucky this time and probably will do it again thinking it was effective public speaking with predictable results ... handcuffs clamping shut.
I did not mean to imply Miss Thunder that you were advocating cowardice. I was just stating the case for interaction but on a less phyiscal level.
Although, in the interests of truth I like the mental image of a fired up petite female artist slapping a 6 foot jerk - you go Margot, my Warrior Princess. Hey, sometimes things happen just like they are supposed to - if one is in the moment deep enough trust your instincts ... as the sufi would tell you (I think).
Floyd, I bet they are on a look out now - that jackleg could stir up some monkey just dumb enough to try it.

Floyd Gentry

I had just turned 13 years old a couple of weeks before JFK was murdered. I was less than thirty miles away in Fort Worth,Texas in 7th grade Art class at Riverside Junior high. The principle made the announcement over the intercom. Girls were walking hurriedly down the hall crying loudly,rumors had began that a group of blacks had shot him and were headed our way-whoa!
My parents took us to Dealey Plaza on Saturday, the grassy knoll was covered in bouquets of flowers, I noticed immediately how tightly the Book depository sixth floor and the street below were to each other.
Years later as a scenic artist on the movie JFK I spent a month on the sixth and seventh floor and the landscape below, I was still creeped out by that ignorant act of an ignorant stilted man,jaded and flawed or as Edwin Arlington Robinson put it----Your dollar is your only word, the wrath of it your only fear

Tony Murray

Lets just throw everyone in jail who expresses an opinion. Anyway, if there was a riot, wouldn't it half to be half black and half white?

KARIN BEST

I have been so lucky to have been born and grow up in a small Island in the caribbean ..Trinidad . where 40 % of the population was of african decent and 40%was of east indian , being a mixture of pakistani heritage muslim ,and indian of hindu decent. The remaining 20%was a cosmopolitian mixture from all over the world... We ,the people of Trinidad &Tobago have all inter married and live side by side each other hindu marrying muslim and white marrying chinese and all the mixtures mixing and marrying each other ...such a melting pot . (This is why we have the most beautiful women in the world.) we get on with each other and always have ... Comming from this upbringing my first introduction to the USA was being barred from entering a resturant in Miami in 19 60 because I was what was called coloured.. being of mixed parentage. well to this day I visit Trinidad everynow and then and I must say the attutude of the people has not changed they still live in harmony and all get on with each other we know no bigotry or predudice of any kind .. because of this I hate any sort of racism of any kind.. I am terribly afraid still and am very unsure of and careful of places that I go and people that I meet. I was buying barbeque at a stall in Perry Florida where my son lives and the conversation around me was about the last meeting of the clan and the new grand wizard.. I got the hell out of there pretty quick.. So you see Racsim is not dead it is alive and thriving here in Florida...central and north anyway.. . If I could vote I 'd vote for Obama I think he is a very honest and sincere man but also a very Brave one.. Karin

Michael Henderson

I read that 95% of black voters were going to vote for Obama, whereas whites were much more evenly divided between the candidates. All things being equal, it seems to me that black voters would be divided as evenly as whites, unless they were voting for Obama because he is black. If blacks are voting for Obama because he is black, isn't it the case that they are not voting for McCain because he is white? Consequently, if blacks vote for Obama because he is black, why can't whites vote for McCain because he is white? Also, it shows that racism is not confined to whites; it is rampant in both the black and the white communities.

Rory Moorer

In a country this diverse all I'm going to say is 43 white men being voted into office out of 43 elections screams of something foul to me hell the next president doesn't even have to be black I mean give us a woman even white,black, hispanic, whatever I mean ...gosh!!! can we try something else? White males are so far have been elected 100% of the time 100% percent!!! and this election that streak is under heavy attack by a person outside of the obvious physical requirements for nomination to be a U. S. President. The first thing these savage minded people want to do is scream assassinate him??? CRAZY! CRAZY! CRAZY! I ask you really how are terrorist groups and hate groups so different? Seriously to actually voice that you would fund an assassination of anyone let alone a presidentail candidate speaks to the depths of the hatred people have in their hearts. White male have gone 43 for 43 so far, over the last 200+ years and god forbid someone not a white male get voted in by the people "they scheme to kill them." Truely scary scary stuff. Diversity is advertised here in America but really not condoned. To openly call for the murdering of another human being be in high office or up the street should be viewed as unacceptable to everyone.

Bruce Combs - REACH BEYOND

I just came in at the top of this long discussion on racism, up with a splitting headache, and I think it's still a good idea tody for everybody to kick the topic around like this among US -- among those of us on what seems to me to be the obviously RIGHT ("correct") side of it, regardless of our own race, ethnic group, etc.. As a retired English teacher I think putting thoughts into writing helps us to clarify them for ourselves as well as perhaps for someone else who is concerned with treating humans as fairly as we would ourselves rather than being afraid that they might "get" something away from us, etc., and also to have someone to blame easily for our own troubles. And I've tried to work in various ways against racism during all that I can remember of my almost 70 years, beginning with an out-spoken white racist father.

The main thing I'VE learned (or else tried to adopt and practice) from this, and other arguable things in life, is that it is of no use to argue with someone who is already set in their opinion. I try to express my disagreement briefly, as a VOTE -- preferably not more than once, and then leave it alone, saving my energy (and sanity) for productive efforts. (Often that means leaving the immediate scene almost immediately.) Because YOU CAN NOT CHANGE SOMEBODY'S OPINION IF IT IS HELD AS AN OBVIOUSLY SET OPINION, A "BELIEF." You can only live your own life as demonstrably as possible, as expressed in the discussion above.

For me, that has meant working with groups against racism, war, global warming, and politicians who openly support those causes; and working for their oposites, whom I am among. Thus, now I am doing personal campaigning for Senator Obama. Today a lady told me that Senator Obama wants to aid a Muslim take-over of the US, and has expressed it in a book. I told her I did not believe that and asked her to check out the book and to check with Snopes.com to verify her "informationl." Then I let it go.

One aspect of what I expressed above as MY CONVICTIONS has been to express them when appropriate in writing and then, during the last 10 years, also in many of my paintings. I don't support the practice of political art, BUT I AM bigotted to/with (?) a selfish belief that I can judge and see and practice a distinction between when art (painting, novels and poems, music, dance, film, etc.) is PROSELYTIZING, rather than MERELY PRESENTING as honestly as possible, what is, or becoming, or might be, etc., in a way that, often rather mutely, offers to an audience an opportunity to ponder, to question, to appreciate, to view "something" from a new or unique perspective; or to dislike and ignore, rather than, at best, I think, to disagree with or deny. And I appreciate this opportunity to state my “CREED” and to write or to paint whatever as I will, and to have the technical skillfulness and artistic features discussed and criticized rather than to have its ideas attacked or attempted to be suppressed,

But, I may be wrong.

Bruce Combs - REACH BEYOND

I just came in at the top of this long discussion on racism, up with a splitting headache, and I think it's still a good idea tody for everybody to kick the topic around like this among US -- among those of us on what seems to me to be the obviously RIGHT ("correct") side of it, regardless of our own race, ethnic group, etc.. As a retired English teacher I think putting thoughts into writing helps us to clarify them for ourselves as well as perhaps for someone else who is concerned with treating humans as fairly as we would ourselves rather than being afraid that they might "get" something away from us, etc., and also to have someone to blame easily for our own troubles. And I've tried to work in various ways against racism during all that I can remember of my almost 70 years, beginning with an out-spoken white racist father.

The main thing I'VE learned (or else tried to adopt and practice) from this, and other arguable things in life, is that it is of no use to argue with someone who is already set in their opinion. I try to express my disagreement briefly, as a VOTE -- preferably not more than once, and then leave it alone, saving my energy (and sanity) for productive efforts. (Often that means leaving the immediate scene almost immediately.) Because YOU CAN NOT CHANGE SOMEBODY'S OPINION IF IT IS HELD AS AN OBVIOUSLY SET OPINION, A "BELIEF." You can only live your own life as demonstrably as possible, as expressed in the discussion above.

For me, that has meant working with groups against racism, war, global warming, any cruelty to animals and people, and for politicians who openly support those causes; and meanwhile working for their oposites, whom I am among. Thus, now I am doing personal campaigning for Senator Obama. Today a lady told me that Senator Obama wants to aid a Muslim take-over of the US, and has expressed it in a book. I told her I did not believe that and asked her to check out the book and to check with Snopes.com to verify her "informationl." Then I let it go.

One aspect of what I expressed above as MY CONVICTIONS has been to express them when appropriate in writing and then, during the last 10 years, also in many of my paintings. I don't support the practice of political art, BUT I AM bigotted to/with (?) a selfish belief that I can judge and see and practice a distinction between when art (painting, novels and poems, music, dance, film, etc.) is PROSELYTIZING, rather than MERELY PRESENTING as honestly as possible, what is, or becoming, or might be, etc., in a way that, often rather mutely, offers to an audience an opportunity to ponder, to question, to appreciate, to view "something" from a new or unique perspective; or to dislike and ignore, rather than, at best, I think, to disagree with or deny. And I appreciate this opportunity to state my “CREED” and to write or to paint whatever as I will, and to have the technical skillfulness and artistic features discussed and criticized rather than to have its ideas attacked or attempted to be suppressed,

But, I could be wrong.

Bruce Combs - REACH BEYOND

Relevant to this discussion on race because it concerns the ad that first provoked it with Skip Hunt is this acticle
reprinted in ALTERNET, Oct 14,08

http://www.alternet.org/rights/102837/

Former McCain Supporter: McCain Is "Unleashing the Monster of American Prejudice"
By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now!. Posted October 13, 2008.

Floyd Gentry

Thank you Bruce for your posting, it helps. I work part time for an Arts group and we talk about the presidential race, it comes up and I've personally been shocked by the number though small who told me they could never vote for a 'Black.' I told some of the others about what I had heard, but wouldn't give out their names. I would let them find out for themselves.

The year after graduating from High school my best friend and former teammate was shot through the heart after he left a high school basketball game.
Barry was only 19 years old when he was killed he was on a football scholarship at Texas Christian at the time. The black man who killed Barry left all of us who loved Barry barely tethered to our hearts and to the earth.
In those days no one received counciling of any kind, you were told to rub some dirt on it and go on with your life(I'm still not certain what that means) maybe it meant just to place the awfulness in the back of your mind and then say 'oh well' and thenforget it.
I told that to tell this,an hour after Barry was killed a medium sized group of friends gathered at our hangout at Napoleon's pizza and unfortunately the racist in that group were going out to avenge Barry's death and I hate saying this term,they were yelling out---' Let's go out (and I'm quoting) go " nigger knocking"
I never gave their names to anyone, I was never ask. and I never heard if they went through with it, but they left Napoleons with the intent.
They ask me that night if I would go with them, I told them flat out-- No! And I told them they were crazy as hell to do this . . .
The night just wasn't sad enough.
PS - To this day I wished I had been there with Barry- I was supposed to be. I would have taken that bullet for him, now after all this time the impact of those days is beginning a slow fade, but I still can't shake the guilt. somethings never change, when sadly they could.

Kevin Callahan

Has long been a favorite of mine. People NEED to laugh at themselves.

Richard Hubal

It was 7 years ago when you didn't have a bumper sticker saying "support your troops" or a flag pen on your lapelle- you were an outsider, a traitor, unfit, one who isn't patrioctic. Now you see Obama wearing the flag pin and Mccain isn't. You noticed Bill Krystol not flapping how great Mccain is(strange), but you see the neocon getting on the band wagon wishing harm toward Obama. This country is heading for a grusome ride, and really all we can do is educate and create to make the difference. To make them think, plant a seed to remember that this country has incredible intentions to live better.

WE as artists can educate by volenteering at your local elementry school - a one time art class with what ever medium you choose. It's amazing how kids absorb information, and this is one way we can plant seeds. The neocon has a strong mind- set, and it will take generations for them to ever see the light. In the mean time we create and plant the seeds.

Sher Green

I'm a New Zealander (a natural kiwi born Maori of very mixed heritage including Italian, Irish, English, Welsh, Greek) and very proud of the fact also. I'm thinking that I would have loved to have pinged the guy at the airport but of course - as a Justice of the Peace of New Zealand, and also very much a law abiding citizen this is not the done thing. The thing is about planting seeds is that there have been many planted prior to all of this occurring - racism is very much alive and kicking in the world - and not just in the USA. We have it here in New Zealand, and in neighbouring Australia also. Thing is, we are such a mixed up breed of people that I'm sure there are many folk out there who do not know their heritage and as has happened here in New Zealand, a lot of folk have found that they have Maori (native) blood - and these days its "hip" to be a Maori because the Government is very much in tune with their cultural side and so gives a lot of benefits to some (not all of use - and especially not us artists)!!

I do trot along to my five year olds primary school (elementary) and take art classes - they are a wonderful mix of kids - from Thai to Tongan, South African to American, Asian mixed with European - its just wonderful. The kids are so in tune with each other - a shame that adults can't take a leaf or two out of the younger generations.

This is my first post - and perhaps I should have read every one of hte above because I could prattle on much longer - but my lil guy needs to get out of the tub coz his skin is going wrinkly!

Carson Collins

I lived in Costa Rica for 6 years. I was a legal resident, and I was married to a Swede who was a citizen. I spoke Spanish quite fluently in those days. I used to travel to Miami frequently, and would shop around for gallery representation.

I was often refused by galleries based on the fact that my last name, Collins, is not Hispanic but Celtic. In other words, I was a resident of Costa Rica, I spoke Spanish, and I was married to a Costa Rican - but these posh Miami galleries would not even look at my artwork because I didn't fit their definition of a Latino. Miami is legally still part of the USA, so far as I know?

Recently I applied for a part-time job as counterman in a dry-cleaning establishment in Sarasota, FL and was informed by the management that "we only hire Mexican women".

Can you imagine the stink that would be raised by the ACLU (among other organizations) if the reverse were true? It's blatant sexism and racism. It's totally illegal.

O, there's plenty of racism in the USA. But don't kid yourself - it cuts both ways.

By the way, the majority of Sarasotans are retired white-bread Republicans from the Midwest - mainly Michigan and Ohio. I live in Congressional district 13, and my Representative in Congress is Katherine "stick out your tits for the camera" Harris, who was the FL Supervisor of Elections in 2000, and helped erstwhile Governor Jeb Bush to steal the election from Al Gore. This bitch should be in prison, but instead she was re-elected by the superannuated, over-medicated, senile racists who inhabit the 'gerrymander' that is District13.

Anyway, here's my advice, for whatever it's worth: VOTE FOR OBAMA.

Sure, Ralph Nader would be a hell of a lot better President. But he hasn't got a chance.

I was a volunteer speaker for Dennis Kuchinich (rhymes with spinach) in 2004. I sort of like Ron Paul as well. But don't throw away your vote, folks. The polls are predicting that Obama will win by a slim margin. And that's pretty scary, because the RNC has the technology to steal the election if it's close - as they have so blatantly done in 2000 and 2004.

The USA is on the verge of becoming a fascist state that will make Nazi Germany look like a Sunday school picnic. Don't let it happen. Put racism aside and for God's sake, vote for OBAMA.

John Mc Dermott

Skip,
Thank you for bringing this into the open.

Somehow, I thought that racism in the USA had, in general, been overcome. Perhaps it’s just my own perception, believing that the greatest ever Americans of my own lifetime, such as JFK and Martin Luther King, had changed the whole outlook of what it is to be American. When Obama came to the political light I thought that this is finally being realised.

What you, in the US, might not immediately realise, is that your Presidential campaign is being hugely reported around the world, sometimes overtaking our own domestic political news. The reason for this is because of Obama.

In him every oppressed, racially abused and displaced person sees hope for themselves. I would add, to respectfully remind Americans, that no other country in the world has the same moral ideals, set in constitutional stone, that exists your country. It maybe because that these superbly human ideals have been lost or forgotten in recent years and are only now re-emerging, from that redundancy, to be, perhaps, personified in Obama.

The world today is going though a critical period, that goes well beyond the organised scare mongering we continually witness; and its going to get worse before it gets better - if it is to get better at all. At no other time in the history of mankind is there such a need for all peoples to work together, regardless of who we are, what we are, or what we think we are. This is a time where those prone, or led, by the mere ignorance that is racialism - will have to re-examine their own standing in this very crowded and very frightened world. We are, after all, just the same as each other - and to stop looking for scapegoats to conceal our own natural defects that come as part and parcel of just being human.

Sometimes we need to remind ourselves that we are not born racialist, religious or with some sort of implanted political memory that will shape our lives from the moment we are born. Yet, regardless of national borders, we are most definitely unified within a human community - one that can be truly benevolent. This chance, this slim chance, now exists.

They say, ‘cometh the moment, cometh the man’ I think this moment has come for this young man and much weight of high expectation will be placed on his shoulders. He, like all of us, will be experiencing limitations in what can be done, judging himself as to his human ability to take on the hopes of the USA, and indeed for all of those around the world living in hopelessness and despair. The choice of course belongs to all Americans and what a responsibility you now have! Not an enviable one. But I can tell you this, with a free and open mind, that every vote this man gets, from each single American, there will ten fold thousands of votes of crying hope behind you.

Todd Peterson

I keep hearing about black racism, because 95% are polling for Obama. I believe in past elections something like 90% of blacks have voted for a Democrat. I also think that in a country, where a short 45 years ago the state of Mississippi found 5 white men guilty of murdering 1 black and 2 white civil rights workers, and then gave them suspended sentences, that the hunger among blacks for the first black President is understandable. I think it's more a case of racial pride than racism

Kevin Callahan

it's a crazy world out there. We are being frightened by the idea that if we elect the "wrong" person it will leave us open to having some dark stranger come into our homes and steal our TVs, and cars, etc. Well for the past 8 years we've elected the most trustworthy properly colored white men and they've blatantly swooped in and stole our TVs, cars, houses, kids college education fund, jobs and any other damn thing they could get their hands on.

Why is no one talking about Palin and her potential son in law? he has DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL. What kind of parents won't support their child or son in child for at least one year to give him an opportunity to get through school? Is this the message she will send to our children? Hit a snag? Drop out of school and join the Joe Sixpack society and get a part time job with Burger King. If they are even hiring. If this were a black candidate in the "old south" she would be roasted for having a pregnant daughter with a drop out son in law. Oh... by the way... he's off to the north oil fields to suck on the tit of big oil until he can be rehabilitated into some type of executive position for which (after dropping out of school) I am sure he will be well qualified.

Try to imagine what the Repubs would be doing with this if this were Obama's brother or sister. Yeah, ain't pretty.

John racism has come very far here in America. I dare say those of us who are old enough to remember the civil rights struggles of the sixties would certainly agree. But it has not disappeared and it will not... ever I don't think. One very primary reason is that power and money flows to those who can keep the public at a certain level of fear. Fear over race, class, jingoism, jobs, the future, terrorism. These are but a few things that keep us afraid enough to hold those old principles of racism, etc deep in our hearts.

Tony Murray

People seem to think that having a man who is half black is some milestone in American politics. It is not. the milestone will be when we don't refer to people as being black or white! Obama is not the second coming of Christ! We are faced with electing two people with very different Ideals and objectives. That is the issue. Getting beyond the inflamatory pot stirring and slurs seems impossible at this point with Ignorance being the predominant religion in the USA.

Kevin Callahan

There is no doubt that ignorance plays a huge part in any societal decision throughout history. And most likely always will. That being said you CAN NOT remove the huge mass of baby boomers and elderly from the equation. We were brought up with a different inculcation than the younger adults of today. Many of us MAY have overcome the base prejudices that society taught us (then) but it is still in our genetics to REMEMBER it. Just because I am not overtly racist I can not in any way remove from my own memory how unique it was to even see a black face in my youth. There is no way to wave a magic wand and remove peoples background, history, race, gender, and ethnicity from the equation. And I beg to differ... no matter how some may rail and others ignore, this is a historically significant election for the many reasons of race, class and gender that are out there.

Rich Milo

I agree 100%

Darkest Artist

Go, Keith!

Skip Hunt

Oh please Darkest Artist! This is just elitist-drama-queen-lefty-commie-liberal media bias twisting the facts as usual. If you want true fair and balanced reporting... you really can't find it anymore except for FOX news. Don't waste your time getting your panties in a bunch with all this liberal drivel!


LOL!!!

Can you believe people actually spew BS like the above?!

GO KEITH!!! and Campbell Brown!!! Finally a few journalists have grown a pair and are actually trying to do their jobs like they should have been doing for the last 8 years. It's about time. Better late than never I suppose.

Darkest Artist

LMAO! liberal drivel lol....Yes. When I think of Edward R. Murrow, FOX would have him spinning in his grave....

Kevin Callahan

That when you apply to work at Fox, Roger Ailes has decreed that the typing test now says the Quick White Fox Jumps Over The Brown Terrorist. Not sure if it's true though.

I do have s friend though that watched ONLY Fox news. You should try having a conversation with her sometime.

Kent Whitaker

There are more black racists than white racists,at least in the upcoming election. It's just not very popular today to point that out.You don't want to be looked on as a bigot even if
it means keeping those facts to yourself. Saying what you did is kind of like the girl in the fable who had said the King wore no cloths. Just politically incorrect. LOL!!

Skip Hunt

Not voting for someone because of the color of their skin is just wrong... but that's your right. Where this nimrod crossed the line is when he said that if his white candidate didn't get in... he'd gladly contribute to a fund to have Obama assassinated. This is the kind of ugliness that has been stirred up. On one hand... it's good to get it out in the light of day... but, on the other hand, to me... it's scary as hell that there are still plenty of people who feel this way.

I'd hoped that it was just within the old and decaying segment of the population that this kind of disease still festered... and that they'd all be dead anyway inside of a decade... but based on some of the footage of Palin/McCain rallies... the dinosaurs have indeed infected many of their young as well.

Charles Peck

and smart to vote for the fellow (maybe a woman next time) that best reflects your hopes for the future and most or many will do just that (though we might find their reasoning kafluooy) and yes, we humans are so alike that most of us like those who are like us ... Oh to heck with it - we all know what we are going to do, no one is going to change our minds at this late date and it has all been said quite well already ... Vote Obama.

Joyce Owens

I am black and I have lived the black experience in this free country.

Those African Americans did not get into the fray in Florida because we don't seek violence and because we are used to racists.

My vote in November will go to the intelligent president who demonstrates he can lead the country out of the current quagmire with integrity. I have voted for both Democrats and Republicans. I don't vote for a party, but for a person.

Fear of the unknown can make people behave in strange ways. Orson Wells' "The War of the Worlds" showed us that.
Fear and hatred of a group of people based on race is a national disgrace.
Experience, world travel, and perhaps the study of anthropology might clear up some of the fuzzy thinking on ethnicity and race.

Rich Milo

BRAVO! Just as with Tony I agree with you 100%

Sher Green

forgive me butting on in here - just this kiwigal buzzing around! We have our elections happening here in November and of course is not such a drawn out process as you have in the States. We also have a female Prime Minister - and based on her behaviour a few nights ago when she had a debate with her opposition every talk back to date has slammed her as totally out of control (because she's female). Most of the callers this morning on air were from males -and I guess for a long while now they have been ridiculing her because for the past 10 plus years she's been doing a darned good job at running our country. (I do tend to think she's a bit soft on our criminals and hope something changes in that direction - preferring America's example of how to deal with the high risk reoffenders). "Life"in New Zealand means 10 years! Spend more time rehabilitating these bozoes!

Anyway, I do believe that no matter where we are in the world the majority of us are fairly level headed and make decisions that promote equality. What perturbs me the most though is a group that call themselves "Skinheads" - and equally concerning is that I have been told they are funded by some fairly hefty well known businessmen.

Apologies for hijacking this forum!

We are hearing more about the politics in the USA than we are about our coming elections and the candidates! I do think the world is waiting in anticipation for the outcome. If I were living there - definitely Obama for President! Apart from the fact he oozes energy and charisma its certainly time for a change.

Its time to paint! Ciao folks

Tony Murray

I am glad you chose to add your two cents Joyce. If a person can lead this country into the next century with integrity and wisdom I will vote for them. We need to start looking at ourselves as the HUMAN race. And when a question about race is asked on a form we say yes!

Skip Hunt

Rich, Tony, et al....

I'm not sure I get it... the basic reportage here was that racism appears to be alive and well. I was surprised by that. I really thought we'd nearly beat it, but something in the McCain/Palin propaganda seems to have brought that ugliness out into the daylight. Do either of you disagree with that?

Do you agree with the fellow who says if McCain doesn't get elected... he'll contribute to a fund to have Obama assassinated? Do either of you agree that THAT's "100%" WRONG?

Neither of the options was my first choice (Kucinich was the only candidate who represented my views the most in general.. but he's not charismatic enough for the shallow American mind). Of the two options... McCain seems part of the exact same network who's been destroying America for the last 8 years. Palin's ideology just plain scares me. Obama... well, he's a politician and likely not perfect. However, he DOES give me hope for a better future. It could be that he's just as corrupt as any of them, but the others give me nothing but fear. Obama does seem to inspire people and give them hope. And, that appears to extend world-wide. NOT just in the U.S.

I believe that if you can give people hope and inspire the multitudes to do great things... that's 99% of the battle. And, in this arena... Obama is the clear victor.

Todd Peterson

with You Skip

Darkest Artist

that "hope" is such a dirty word?! If you dare to "hope" for "change," many of the GOP treat you like you said "I have leperous sores oozing from my body, whoops there went my nose!" i think that those of us who DARE to HOPE and try to believe in CHANGE, and by that i mean REAL change and not failed policies that have been beaten like a dead horse in the sand of Iraq and on Wall Street....i just get so angry that we get told we are naive and stupid to DARE to freaking HOPE. at this point, that's all we have left to hold on to, is hope. our economy has failed, the wars have failed....we have failed our children! yet, to many, HOPE is a dirty word. god forbid you HOPE things could CHANGE.

by the way, am I alone here, or did Obama TOTALLY SMOKE McLame last night?! GO OBAMA!!!

Charles Peck

just watched it again on my lil ole laptop (download through the online NY Times) just too check my morning response against my "in the moment" response ... John McCain looks more and more like mean old rich spoiled brat (who, like many of us lived through some hellish hard times - yeah, he gets the ribbon for that) that just can't do ideas very well.
There is a world of difference between being a good fighter and a good leader. We need a leader ... we have got loads of great fighters out there now ... we need a "thinker" up top not just another simplistic cowboy.

Joyce Owens

The majority of you guys give me great hope for the future of our country.

Obama is from my home state. We have known him a bit longer than the country. My husband has interviewed him and covered his campaign. "Google" Monroe Anderson to read his political blog. He is also on Huffington Post and www.Ebonyjet.com. You will see some things from his stint at the Chicago Sun-Times as a columnist as well.

I believe the people who are voting FOR Obama are doing so because we want a president who can speak, who understands the issues, who is gracious and can speak civilly to other world leaders, who has the awareness that it is inappropriate to give a back rub to a world leader who happens to be a woman!

Many of the people are are voting AGAINST Obama are voting race!!!!

I have seen Oliver Stone interviewing about the movie. I am not sure I want to see it after living it for 8 years, but he may clear up some of the fuzzy thinking.

Ozy Kroll

Sunday as I was sitting at the bar at a very popular monthly event in the Florida Keys, a patron at the bar started shaking his fist at the TV and shouting at the top of his lungs "F#%k You! F#%k You! F#%k You! " As the TV had been showing football highlights, I assumed he was reacting to the Dolphin's loss. I was shocked when I looked up to see an Obama ad being run. I thought to myself; this guy has no problem voicing his opinion. What came out of his mouth next staggered me, and again at the top of his lungs, "They're going to kill your black n----r ass." His friends all laughed and told him to chill. Some of his friends were Hispanic, a few were very dark Hispanic, but, not one seemed to take offense. As I sat and wondered what I could say to the jerk to get him to throw the first punch; security showed up and told him to finish his drink and then leave. I went to security and told them that I heard him make threatening remarks about a presidential candidate and would be willing to be witness to it. Basically, I was told that the jerk was drunk and to mind my own business. I agreed that he was probably drunk, reminded them that it was my/our business, and left.

What scares me is what spin the gov/news will put on any type of civilian unrest in the future. Narrow minded people like the one mentioned above will have no problem blaming race, sex, religion, etc. as the root cause. Just as they blindly handed over our rights in the name of the "Patriot Act" , they'll accept a fascist police state.

Margot Koefod

to go back to your original post Skip and trying not to get into politics....
I reread it...and I am mad again!!!!
yes like you , I am still surprised that somebody would PUBLICLY with "blessings" from a crowd threatened the life of another man because of his skin color /race.... this is freakin insane..
ok, I'm not stupid or naive..I know prejudice is alive and will always be..it's human..actually we ALL do it at one point or another[ if it's not for race it is for sexes or cultures]
but ....but... to speak it loudly and proudly in a public place and to That Level is , yes, surprising me.
this man should be charged...

and ok..I can't help getting into politics..
had a heated discussion with a good friend...and I am deleting the next comment I made about Palin...I do not like her but I am sure there is good people who do...at that point of how much narrow mindness people /politicians can be I just can't be as narrow minded either.... because it makes no sense to get all wound up by those politicians.... all what matters is to be and act as we say..

like darkest artist says it well, at least Obama is bringing HOPE and like Skip says it ,it's 99% of the battle.
Charles sums it all for me ..we need a thinker.. or in my own words... an "intelligent" man will do !! after 8 years of lead by a retard, for god sake, some brain here!!!!! and both Mc Cain and Obama are better than the retard.. but only Obama is bringing what we need the most right now..HOPE.[ and in my opinion, better plans..but that's my opinion]
The whole world is watching... because the fate of many other countries is tied to the fate of this country... we 're all in this together !!! [ sad smile].

Jessica Mason

I have to disagree with you when you say many voting against Obama are voting race. At least, what I see in my area, is people who's annual income is over the $250K that are going to receive higher taxes are voting McCain and people below the mark are for Obama.
My brother in law is a die hard republican and he constantly sends me emails filled with propaganda. He is by no way a racist though. He is trying to persuade me towards McCain. The problem is his family income in 3 times ours.
He feels that he will now have to support the "needy" who have been perfectly capable of working and making a living but who are too lazy to get a job. (His thought’s not mine)

Has anyone received the email about the grasshopper and the ant? I got it 3 times. It depicts the grasshopper (Rep) as responsible, hardworking, and saves throughout the summer and the ant (Dem) as the party hardy, spend it all, save nothing type of person that the grasshopper will have to support if Obama is elected.

My point to this is, most people who live in that higher income bracket see people of lesser fortune as losers’. We are considered Useless Eaters and irresponsible because we have different priorities. The people who live in this higher tax bracket see this as unfair and they will be supporting the rest of us. I truly believe that some of these people think they will have to ration the bread out of their own children’s mouth’s to feed the hungry and the poor who only make $100 K a year.

My other point is, everyone I know, even the racist human’s who live a middle class life are supporting Obama.

Rich Milo

I think there is racism on both sides and it sickens me. That's all I am saying. I would like to see the election to be won on a candidates credentials and not the color of his skin and I don't think a person should be labeled a racist if they choose to vote republican. When someone makes comments like that person you were talking about they show their ignorance. You can not change idiots like that you just have to wait for those people to die off.

Darkest Artist

that Joe the Plumber is actually a McCain campaign plant, because he is able to afford to buy and start a new business in the midst of a tanking economy, he conveniently would be making the 250k+ that Obama's plan would start taxing...and the fact that McCain wouldn't let the topic of Joe rest...and I read that if you look up Joe in his local phone book, he's not there, and there is no plumbing business associated with him. I just watched the actual Obama/Joe Plumber video and it just seemed like he was scripted. Maybe i'm paranoid as a by-product of the lies the current administration has been pushing on my plate the last 8 years....but something smells and it's not just the bad exhaust fumes from the Straight Talk Express! bah.....

anyways, if you need a laugh, check this out. lots of things to click! it was sad and scary but also funny:

http://palinaspresident.com/

John Mc Dermott

Joe the plumber?
Actually, Joe is a very chique emerging installation artist who uses Pipes, U-bends, Stop cocks, Isolating Valves, Check Valves, Chrome Plated Copper Tubing and Copper Tubing within the civic environment. Joe is work-man-like in creating functional constructions to broadly protest against the formalist art establishment and by doing so alert the ignorant and short-sighted to the trauma of depending upon government hand out, that leads to corruption, and ultimately despotism.

I admire Joe’s new work with the Chrome Plated Copper Tubing - feckin awesome!

Darkest Artist

your wit nearly caused me to spray water on my keyboard....but nonetheless was hilarious. you know, once i moved into a house in the country and on the ductwork, someone long ago working in the house had written "Joe wants the copper tubing" and it has always struck me as funny...even more so now ;)

lol. despotism. we can't have that! ;)

Charles Peck

yeah we wouldn't want any "handouts" of 'our' money going to undesevring losers - unless it was big enough to really hurt, like welfare for a small handful mega multi-millionairs who got caught with their hand in the cooky jar. Sure wouldn't want to hep any commoner types strugglin under the burden of inferior genes and such. Ya know they jus need to go buy some better jeans is all then they'd be like "us" living off the fat of other producers.
There are great problems depending on anyone other than ones self in this old world but when citizen's get "their" money back it ain't exactly a handout from da masser man.
As if da gobment man ever made a dollar anyway but taking from somebody else.
It may seem a stretch but healthy, well fed workers produce more and less likely to fall prey to calls for voilence in their midst like that jackleg Skip ran across in a South Florida airport trying excite the privledged to murder.
One should keep in mind Jimmy Morrison's observation "they got the guns but we got the numbers" although poetic in a song it sucks when it comes to pass in real life.

chrome plated copper - is a great description of shined up falseness if I ever saw one or making the cheap look like something of value.

Darkest Artist

and Morrison was a prophet I think...the original poet rocker if there ever was one...but i digress. I somehow have friends who marry or hook up with republicans, and i don't know how it happens but it's very confusing and a bit troubling. I keep thinking Leonard Cohen's "Everybody Knows" is just a perfect summation of the times. and yes, John's "chrome plated copper" is indeed that. I'd love to see Cindy McCain in walmart clothes...

Skip Hunt

I'd rather not see Cindy McCain... at ALL! ;-)

Leonard Cohen is a genius writer... right up there with Dylan.

Darkest Artist

he absolutely is...his poetry is also beautiful. suzanne is a fantastic song as well. i used to dislike dylan but now i can appreciate him

Charles Peck

up living in a space (in the 70's) with only a couple or so albums and one of them was Cohen's venture into religious lyrics (he was several decades ahead of Dylan doing this) and though I was mesmerized by his voice and arrangements I was seriously put off by his religious tendencies and have grown to appreciate him over the decades as I was able to get more of his work and grew titch less brittle myself whereas I was struck the first time I ever heard Dylan - this is artistic truth.

Joyce Owens

The pollsters and pundits are trying to tease this issue out. If you do not think you know any racists it's because only some racists announce themselves...

Identifying a black person in America a racist is like saying a rape victim is a criminal. Until we walk in each other's shoes, we will not know the other's experience but we can try. The fact that the issue of Barack's ethnicity comes up at all is SHAMEFUL! This country is based on freedom for all and religious freedom for all. If Obama was an "Arab", so what?

Here is an excerpt from an article that illustrates quite simply and vividly the masqueraded reality.

I will assume everyone knows about the Bradley effect, if not please "Google" that, if you want to know more. This is lighter, but explains the current phenomena around race and Obama:

"When you combine the “Bradley Effect" with the “Who, Me? Effect," the numbers could be quite significant. A whole vocabulary has evolved to help the "Who me-ers" rationalize their opposition to Obama. I can help with the definitions:

"I don't like him because he's arrogant" really means, "He's black."

"He's inexperienced" really means, "He's black."

"I know he's not a Muslim, but how can I vote for someone with a name like that in these times?" really means, "He's black."

"I don't feel I can trust him" really means, "He's black."

"His speeches are too fancy" really means, "He's black."

"How did a guy with his background end up at Harvard?" really means, "He's black."

"I like his ideas, but there's just something about him" really means, "He's black."

"I don't like his wife" really means, "He's black."

"I went to Hawaii once and I hated it" really means, "He's black."

One good thing about America is that you are not required to justify whom you vote for. If you want to vote for someone because you like his eyes or the way he dresses, you may do that. And if you don't want to vote for someone because of the color of his skin, that is your right. I just hope that not too many people exercise that right."

Lloyd Garver has written for many television shows, ranging from "Sesame Street" to "Family Ties" to "Home Improvement" to "Frasier." He has also read many books, some of them in hardcover. He can be reached at lloydgarver@gmail.com. Check out his Web site at lloydgarver.com and his podcasts on iTunes.

Joyce Owens

And has tax problems, but I am sure you heard by now.
His middle name is Joe and he may be sorry, by now, that he was the pawn for Sen. McCain.

Darkest Artist

will try this again:

Bruce Combs - REACH BEYOND

Thank you so much for your most apt and accurate expressions, Joyce. Courage, peace, etc., Bruce

Bruce Combs - REACH BEYOND

You know your photos didn't make it? Thanks for trying and try again! Courage, Persistence, Peace, etc., Bruce

Bruce Combs - REACH BEYOND

Thanks a heap, Joyce, for your appropriate and accurate, I think, comments added to this discussion. Peace, etc., Bruce

Todd Peterson

Owes back taxes, made 40 g last Year, isn't a licensed plumber, doesn't have any plan in place to buy His boss's business, the business isn't for sale, didn't produce anything close to $250,00 for His boss last Year, and now He's John McSame's mascot. Maybe they can get Him to pal around with the "first dude" or do some babysitting, That whole ticket is a myth

Joyce Owens

I appreciate the depth of feeling that is expressed in the posts.
What is clear to me is that there is a lingering belief (by some) that race contains attributes OTHER (above and beyond) than how we look.

For descriptive purposes, if you are seeking a fugitive, the darkness or lightness of skin along with clothing, height, weight, hair color, whether she has a car and other information are essential.

The problem: when BAD PEOPLE are thought to be from one race, religion, sex or nationality.

My house was broken into by a blond Polish guy. Should I be afraid that the next tall, blond guy I meet may rob my house?

Please think hard before you make your next generality. Think hard before you make an association to something unrelated to an entire race and turn it into "the truth".
If one Joe the Plumber lies, avoids taxes and is a republican pawn, does that make ALL men who are plumbers or contractors who support McCain bad people?

Margot Koefod

I remember watching "white man's burden" with H . Belafonte and J .Travolta few years ago... I thought first that the "whites" [who where the "blacks"] were described in quite a stereotype way of lower class lower anything ..I was pretty disturbed, felt it was insulting to any african american person.although really like the idea of the movie. Then I thought, well, this stereotype is actually the way a lot/too much people look at "black"...
interesting movie, a must seen.

when I moved to the US from France I was stunned by all the different "communities" of people staying with their "own" kind... coming from a "melting pot" family and raised that way, it was very, very ,very weird..... It took me quite some time to find a school for my children that would give them what I received : not being scared of differences!!!!!! and loving or fighting with people because of who they are and what they do ..NOT because of what they look like. of course raising children is a parent job , but they spend a whole lot of time in school and with their friends... a public school with 79 different nationalities is a good environment for them ,I think !

oh, and Joyce..you are so right...not all people who lie, and avoid taxes are bad people... because I would bet that a huge percentage of american would be then bad people !!!!!!!!

oh and not All republican are bad people!!!! lol...I just hope -very hard- that we are not going to suffer through their politics any longer.

In a way I do feel for that Joe plumber.... another disposable puppet, ....

Skip Hunt

It's funny... I hesitated even starting this thread. The incident in the airport really moved me in a way that I just had to tell someone. Glad so many felt inspired to join in. Bodes well for the artistic community in general. IMO

Margot Koefod

if it's funny Skip...

pretty sad to me....

anyway, you got guts to start this... and this is great... thanks..

I got to stay away from this kind of discussion..I'm way to passionate and passion isn't always good.especially on any deep subject and without real /live interaction....[of course I'm talking for myself..]

Kevin Callahan

For all the distance we have come, consider this: the most racially isolated time in America is ANY Sunday morning at nearly any church. Very few churches are racially diverse. Not so our ballgame though. Hmmnn...

TL Stein

It's too bad Hunter S. Thompson is no longer with us. His journalistic style and committment for the truth would have scared both Obama and McCain. It would have been a good read.

Darkest Artist

may he live forever in our desire to question authority, though!
He's one of my Revolutionaries in my Series....and I know he had very strong opinions about the Bush Administration which I concurred with.

Skip Hunt

I don't know where it's coming from... but I was feeling pretty hopeful that we might actually be on our way back up from the spiral. However... for some odd reason... I really feel like something really horrible is going to happen soon... and, it doesn't matter who get's "elected". Anyone else out there who tends to be sensitive about such things feel that? Or, am I just being paranoid?

I had this same sick feeling about a month before 9/11. I'm feeling it again, but stronger this time.

Darkest Artist

trust your intuition. it's there for a reason.

Skip Hunt

Just something feels wrong. Feels like those who are in power are not going to let a little meaningless election take it away from them... like something is afoot that will put us all in shock again (like in the shock doctrine film)... feels like something nasty is afoot. But... it could be just too much news or something. Not sure. I've been wrong before.... however, I'd say my intuition has been correct more often than not.... it just feels stronger and nastier this time for some reason.

Darkest Artist

Skip, I think there's good reason to feel "off." i just got this one from a friend and it puts a fine point on this discussion we've been having:

Skip Hunt

Or... maybe it's this.

They don't need to win the election. It just needs to be close, or the "people" need to believe it was close. They can close the deal with voter record tampering, voting machine corruption, etc. If it's perceived the election will be close, they can just blame Obama's loss on things like "the Bradley Effect".

They can't just take it by force because "We the People" REALLY DO have the power... and they know it. They need the masses to believe the race is going to be close in order for the cries corruption to be dismissed as "sore losing".

So... they want Obama to go ahead and take a victory lap so many of his supporters might just be lazy enough to sit it out rather than get in line to vote. They'll figure... "he's got it in the bag, so why bother..."

In the meantime, Karl Rove and his minions are ratcheting up the Fear Quotient as high as they can without actually nuking anyone. They're doing this by floating as many fear-response words out there as possible like "Racism" "Riots" "Economic Collapse" "Terror" "Islam" "Muslim" "Terrorist" etc. Because most people don't really think for themselves. Most don't actually process all the input and deduce a logical thought based on the data. They just skim and hang onto catch phrases and sound bites. If you can get enough of the fear-quotient words repeated endlessly in all media... floating out there in the ether... you can get enough to stick in enough of the right sorts of minds... minds that are predisposed and conditioned to react to and obey "fear" (much like many extreme fundamentalist religious folks, ie. conditioned to fear their God and repercussion on judgment day) then you can guarantee most of these folks will vote for the dude they believe is on their God's side. If those folks believe it's all over and aren't afraid enough to vote... they've lost. They need these people to be scared to death of why might happen if they lose... and these people are already conditioned by fear in many of their faiths.

They need all of those conditioned by fear to run to the voting booth and pull the lever for who they believe to be the most "Godly" of the two.

Then, you make sure you fire up all those still infected by racism to be afraid of a person of color running the country... and there you've unfortunately got another significant percentage of the population.

You let one side that has proven itself to be a little lazy when they think it's in the bag sit it out and hit the bong instead... and you've got at minimum... a close race if not a win. And remember all they really need is a perceived close race. You fire up all the right sorts of folks with fear, and let the other's think they've already won it... and you've got your plausible "close race."

The big problem they have right now is that a McCain/Palin win isn't plausible to the general conscious. That's why they're likely ratcheting up the fear-quotient as high as they can get it without having to stage something to forcefully instill the fear. If all else fails, they've always got force or a staged "event" to fall back on as well.

Remember the fear-quotient coming up on the 2004 elections? Constant kidnapping, beheadings, killed journalists, Orange levels and duct tape? Released tapes by Al Qaeda operatives? Actual footage of beheadings on the internet? Fear of a collapsing economy and terrorists? etc. etc. Remember the weeks leading up to the 2004 elections were NON-STOP FEAR?

Well, they're doing it again in a higher pitch.

All sounds like it came right out of Mein Kampf don't it?

Anyway... just a theory.

Charles Peck

of the new "media" - what you/we are doing here and many other places like this all across the country - if we keep at it we can change the world by changing our section of the garden, and that means kicking out those in power and giving power to different group ... as you said WE really do have the power if WE USE IT.

Richard Hubal

beginendbegin

Linda Mungerson

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carson Collins

Your "Theory" is not only right on, I'd go so far (as I more or less did in my previous post) to call it a "fact".

Todd Peterson

should oversee Our elections, I can't believe We can't get a paper trail in some states. The WTO already tries to control the world, but the emerging markets of India and China are already starting to question , Why the old white boy network should be calling the shots. The whole world is changing, is connected via the internet, but rich white boys still think that with a little military backing that they can control the world. Globalization has changed the playing field , but Chaney and the Neo-Cons want to ignore this. They know it's there, they just hope they can squeeze A couple of trillion more out of the system before it collapses

Joyce Owens

Is what a lot of people want, and equal opportunity.

That mainly means equal opportunity to be educated, and to compete for jobs. The integrity Obama exudes let's us know that he will be fair.

You probably know that we had a black mayor in Chicago. Well, we had two. The first one was Harold Washington and almost no one really thought he could win, but he did. The "Lake front liberals" (rich white people) pushed him over the top along with a huge black voter turnout (the black pop. was about 40%. It was 40% white and 20% other). His motto was,"I will be fairer than fair".

His election was feared because some people believed that he would retaliate against all the racist treatment African Americans had endured, but instead he insisted that every white, black, Hispanic, Polish, Asian, Lithuanian and other neighborhood received city services just like the people downtown did. He was smart, articulate and fair... He died of a heart attack in office.

By this time next year we can hope the Neo-Cons and other crooks will have begun paying for their destruction of the world economy by serving long jail terms and paying huge cash fines and paybacks. "W" should be facing impeachment for lying us into a war!

Carson Collins

Zippy's Running Mate

Ozy Kroll

has anyone had any thoughts on the closed door session of congress that was held on March 13, of this year? What is rumored to have been discussed?
Some of the 'rumors' reported on March 14, have proven true.

Skip Hunt

Weren't most of those rumors started by the known liar, instigator, hate mongerer, and white supremist Hal Turner?

Still, pretty scary that he got the market crash right. I've even been getting disturbing emails citing some of Hal Turner's predictions regarding the REX 84 camps, Amero, etc. This guy's "stuff" is spreading like wild-fire.

After you check into this guy... it's pretty easy to dismiss everything he says. Still, spooky that he predicted the market crash... and, if he's lying and just spreading rumors... I can't figure out what his motive could be that would further his agenda.

I'd also like to know why our representatives are even allowed to have secret closed-door sessions.




It's probably nothing, but I noticed a couple odd things this weekend when I went to the Texas Rennaisance Festival near Plantersville, Texas. Not surprising.. all the way there I saw almost nothing but McCain/Palin signs... "Nobama Hussein" signs... Palin/McCain signs with Palin's name on top and much bigger.

However, there's one small town that's about half African American, and half white called Navasota, Texas. The town is odd because there's a very clear division in this town that you can see as you're passing through. On one side of the town, a few Obama signs, and right on the other side of the line... McCain signs. It's really embarrassing to be living in Texas these days.. I mean.. the more I learn about it. The whole racism thing really has me baffled. I can sort of see how racism was born 1000's of years ago. And can speculate on how many of it's roots are likely primal related to fear of the "dark", "unknown", "night"... when you were most likely to get eaten by wild animals you couldn't see without fire... etc. How "Good" and "Evil" became associated with white and black... day and night... etc. How most of these fears are related to primitive fear of the night. But I can't figure out how these ignorant primitive fears have stuck like glue in a substantial portion of the human psyche to this day!... I digress.

The strangeness I saw was that there was a MUCH higher police presence at the Renn Fest. Not just Sheriff's department, but State police and some other uniforms I didn't recognize. I've been going to this festival for several years and there's always at least a couple cops there... but this weekend there were at least 20 times more law enforcement officials there. And they were VERY visible everywhere you looked. Kinda spoiled the whole "Renaissance" Illusion with all the uniformed "peace makers". I couldn't figure out what that heck they were all doing at a lame Renaissance Fest?

On the way back to Austin, I stopped off at a couple REALLY small towns to get something to eat and look for something of interest to shoot. In both towns... while walking around... the emergency sirens went off. I'm sure they were just testing and all... but what are the odds I'd hear them twice in two different small towns... on the same day?

Kristi Taylor

so then if I don't agree with Mcains idelologies what does that mean - it must be because I don't like old guys? Just because you support one candidate or the other it doesn't mean bad intent is the norm from the other side. Can't we all just get along? agree to disagree? I have to believe most people - not all, I agree 100% there - vote on issues and I hope I am not wrong. We can find bad examples of reasons to vote or not vote for any candidate on both ends of the spectrum so how can that really mean anything bigger then what it is...one nutty guy?

Rich Milo

You make the exact point I was trying to make earlier on this post. I agree with everything you just stated. I stand behind every word you spoke. I will not be put into a racist "block" because I lean toward one candidate or another. What is the story here if you are not voting Democratic that makes one a racist. You can stick that BS right up your butt.

Kevin Callahan

As is normal we may have wandered off the original point a bit but this is not about whether you vote for a candidate based on race BUT if you publicly and LOUDLY (as in Skip's airport experience) declare a candidate ought to be KILLED because of his race. The perfect thing about our elections is that when YOU go into the voting booth you are alone. You will "pull the lever" based on what is in your heart. This in no way implies that anyone is a racist. I am sure given the nature of humans MANY people will vote based on exactly that, race (white and black alike). But again, once the votes are counted no one will have a list of votes (on either side) that says these are racist votes. I would defend to my death your right to disagree here on this forum, in my living room, on the street, or anywhere else. But remember that was NOT the original post. And I certainly don't count one's popularity if they don't agree with me. I'd be left standing all alone in a really, really dark room.

Rich Milo

This what you say is true. It is just that I hear a lot of the same crap that I heard in the 80's but in another form. That being that in the 80's when we had all these Republicans running and making claim that they were with the "Religious Right" we where being told that if you were not voting Republican you were not a Christian. This was more BS. Now in a lot of forums we are hearing the same crap, that if you are not voting Demicratic you are a racist. Again I say BS. I for one don't buy it.

Skip Hunt

Rich and Kristi...

Exactly where is it within this thread that ANYONE is suggesting that a republican vote means you're a racist? I just skimmed the whole thread and I don't see it.

The thread was about how evidently MANY ARE voting republican because they just can't pull the level for a black man... and for no other reason. This isn't to say that ALL republican voters are letting race decide.. but if you don't believe racism is playing a very large part of this... you're blind.

Again, please cite the evidence that anyone here is calling ALL republicans voting for McCain/Palin "racists". I just had another look and still can't find it.

Kevin Callahan

I dare say we humans can make anything fit our situation. If the candidate were Jewish it would anti-Semitism, if she were female it would be anti-woman. As true as this is, rock based prejudices don't die so easily. I recall you were reared Catholic. I'm sure you are old enough to remember the JFK election and the rumors, slanders, and outright lies about a Catholic being elected to president. Now voting for Nixon did not make one anti-Catholic but there were certainly many who were. It has worked and continues to work just like that up to and including today. There can be MANY reasons to vote for or against any candidate but here we have a certain segment wanting to elect Obama BECAUSE he is black and others wanting NOT to elect him because he is black. It is simply a fact on the ground.

In fact I think this is a perfect forum to share both ideas and divergent opinions. We are not required to agree with what ever is posted here. I would only ask we keep our civility.

Skip Hunt

Though it's clear from my experiences recently that racism is alive and well in America... I think the division is functioning more as a mass DISTRACTION to keep us all from realizing who the REAL "Boogie Men/Women" are at the top... pulling all of the NEW slavery strings.

"They" (The Uber-Wealthy Elite) need us all divided in order to conquer us.

If you want to know who the real evil ones are.....when you get a chance... check THIS out:

Rich Milo

You miss the point I am not disagreeing with either one of you. Kevin you make my point with your last post what you wrote is precisely what I am saying. Skip I am also agreeing with you on all your points except I would suggest you reread the posts a little more carefully because I am certainly not going to pull individual posts out to show where what I am saying seems to be rampant, as that would without a doubt lead the post to a place which I am not intending it to go.

Jessica Mason

Kevin and Rich, You are both very, very right. Kevin, you explain this well, this should go to the media.

Skip - I wonder if Joyce's Thread "ALL the Racist, Raise Your Hands" is being misinterpreted.

Maybe Joyce could clarify, if you wouldn't mind. :)

Ernie Scott- Dust Rising Studios

it occurred to me that when Hillary and Obama were the front runners, a vote for Hillary would be seen as me being a racist, a vote for Obama would put me seen as a sexist. ha.....
Now, a vote for McCain would still mark me as a racist, a vote for Obama would definitely put me in the ''Ageist'' camp as well as being a Sexist. HMMMM which camp is more tolerant of me in this, in our more changed ''Age of Tolerance'' or rather the intolerance of tolerance. bop bud'ah shoo bi do wah!! see, hilarity.

Rich Milo

Execellent I see someone else understands the lunacy of it all.

Todd Peterson

through all these posts, and I don't see where You can say it appears that "Many" think anyone is a racist based only on Who You are voting for. "I don't agree with many of Obama's political ideologies and sadly it appears according to this thread saying so means to many of you I must be racist". It's just not there

Rich Milo

I guess "you can't see the forest for the trees" fits well.

Darkest Artist

and while i admit to posting videos that are somewhat "leftist" (watch how those panties ride up, Skip! LOL), I don't see the racism thing either. I see a bunch of people (oh those liberal artists, can't swing a cat without hitting one lol) having an open conversation about a bunch of nasty people who ARE racist, and talking loudly IN PUBLIC about looking for a grassy knoll to stand on while offing Obama, and that is NOT ACCEPTABLE behavior for ANYONE, whether they are libertarian, independent, democrat, republican, purple with green polkadots, or Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter. not cool, not right, and that's what is on the table. or am i under the table and missing the context here with my bottle of pinot noir? ;)

Rich Milo

I quess the post on the "Bradley Effect" was convieniently passed over by your tight scrutiny of the posts.

Carson Collins

For those of you who are old enough to remember the 8 Clinton years, think back and get a really clear picture in your mind. Try to get a 'sense memory' of those years, if you can.

Now do the same mental exercise for the Cheney/Bush years. Which one feels better? It really is just as simple as that, folks, no matter how much the Neo-Cons try to claim that 'It's all just too complicated for you to understand."

Sure, I have serious issues with Obama. If I were still stumping for Kucinich (rhymes with spinach) - who wasn't even allowed to debate in this year's election, trust me - I could get up there on that podium and rip Senator Obama a new one.

That's not the point. In today's Presidential race, one must choose the lesser of two weevils.

Do you really want another 8 years of Cheney/Bush - who were more loyal to the Saudi Royal Family than to the mostly senile, fearful, brainwashed idiots who "elected" them? (but not really) Do you want to see the USA become a 3rd world country?

In that case, you should definitely vote for McCain and the 'Stepford' governor of Alaska. She knows how to distribute profits from oil drilling - never mind that our remaining domestic oil reserves are less than a spit in the ocean. O God - I could go on and on.

Don't trust me (after all, why should you?); take the Bush-McCain Challenge and see how high you score.

If you think that maybe the survival of the middle and working classes in the USA is worth a damn, vote for OBAMA.

The color of the man's skin has nothing to do with it. And I'm an Irish/Cherokee mongrel myself, by the way - my skin is darker than his. Apparently. Of course, the make-up artists spray paint him a different color depending on the occasion. Or hadn't you noticed that?

WAKE UP!

Rich Milo

The real Delusion is believing that either of the Parties will deliver us from the financial mess we are in. Or even believing that it is one Party's fault more than the others. The goal is to assimilate us into a "One World Government". This will eventually take place. One only needs to look at the past 50 years and even before to see it's obvious progression to that final goal. Does anyone still actually believe that it is the political puppets we see in office that are behind this. It is much much greater than that.

Carson Collins

said the little red hen. But the sky actually is falling this time.

Yes, President Clinton pushed the NAFTA, which was a giant step in the wrong direction. He was a liar and a phoney-baloney who was way too pro-corporate globalization for my taste. He failed, miserably, to live up to the potential that we 'baby boomers' expected of him. And, just for the record, I didn't vote for him.

Nor did I vote for Al Gore, by the way (although I later wished that I had); he was never the larger-than-life tragic hero for me that he was, so obviously, and hilariously, in his own mind. I was so sure that Gore was going to beat "W" like a red-headed step-child (or a 'drum', or a 'rented mule', or whatever salty analogy you prefer) that I voted for Nader. In Florida. And look what happened. You can bet that I won't make that mistake again. I was always big on 3rd party candidates.

I had to take a deep breath and pinch my nose pretty hard when I voted for John Kerry (who, at least, had been an outspoken opponent of the senseless, bloody, useless war in Viet Nam) Once upon a time - and yet was also an uber-privileged Skull-and-Bones frat boy right alongside of "W".

We are, all of us, hell-bent to become slaves of the New World Order. It's nothing new; just look at a $1 USD bill. What do you think "Novus Ordo Seclorum" means, little boys and girls? (Here's a hint: it's written in Latin).

The only choice that we have left, as a voting population, is not whether we are going to hell in a handcart - it's only how fast, and whether there will be any degree of compassion.

With McCain (the oldest and most pugnacious candidate since Ronnie Regan) we can all get to hell faster.

With OBAMA, it just might be a longer, smoother ride.

WAKE UP!

Vote for Obama. He's far from perfect, but he's the best thing we've got going for us at this late date.

Vote for McCain, and you're signing the death warrants for generations yet unborn, and sowing the seeds of fear and hatred for the future.

Can this madness never stop?

WAKE UP!!

Todd Peterson

I get it, once again YOU see Yourself as the victim, and now I'm going to start humming "You're so vain, You probably think this post is about You"

Carson Collins

Q2.

Didn't your mother ever tell you, "If you don't have anything constructive to say, just don't say anything at all?"

Linda Mungerson

Da Vinci theory and Mine

October 11th, 2008 - 10:13 PM
As you know Da Vinci had great insight for the future of mankind. Everything he wrote came to truth. I am not of his caliber but I had a dream, there was a society that had a great master plan. They wanted to take over the world and disable it's economy, the question was how? All the powerful wealth of one society came together in one thought on how to design it. We need to be able to buy everything and pay pennies on the dollar, pound, euro, yen and all the currency known to man. The idea fell into place since they already controlled one third of market. What ever they do will effect the world, be it in good will or bad. The plan began to unfold, first they must destory the infrastructure and attack it's source and all of it's assets . Make everything lose it's value so everyone will bail out from underneath their debts to feed their families, just to survive and we will buy it all, for nothing. The stock market will belong to them with all the shares. Corporations, banking institutions, commercial developments , and residential properties, they will own it all and the people will be at their mercy. My question for the people is, do you see the plan, and is it working? Yes, my dream was a nightmare but when I woke up it was still there!

Linda Mungerson Palmer
And I agree with you Carson and Al would of been the best choice for PRESIDENT!!! I like this saying, we pay the same price for oil as you will pay for a barrel of wheat. Food is the most valuable thing on this planet and water!!!! And America owns all the food, so where is the problem???? Up their butt holes I say. Their heads are way to big and they can't get them out !!!LOL

Todd Peterson

Nope. not U

Ozy Kroll

is working. The gov/corp cartel gave away the cookie jar in 1913. The Federal Reserve System was the beginning of the end. A bunch of private corporations dictating interest rates, loaning the gov. money, and printing our money; they've owned it all for a long time, now they're going to collect it.

Skip Hunt

So you watched that video. Scary stuff ain't it? And I've read enough on this stuff now that I believe the filmaker is dead-on. Might be a couple inaccuracies, but for the most part.. verifiable. I had no idea. What to do now?

(until I become "rich") I ask... when do we get to eat the rich? I'm hungry!!! ;-)

Darkest Artist

or fodder for your nightmares? i saw this yesterday and i thought i was having a bad trip lol.

Skip Hunt

I'm laughing so hard I'm crying!!! ROTFLMAO

ME GUSTA MUCHO!!!

Darkest Artist

a tension breaker in here. glad you liked it! LMAO!

Kristi Taylor

it's just kind of sad to me the idea that almost any reason not to support Obama could be and is being construed as racist (see Bradley effect/who me) which got a few props here but no dissents. Seems a dangerous road to go down considering he'll likely be our next president and some people might actually not like his wife or policies or whatever other thing that might be able to be labeled as racist. For that matter it was downright popular to dislike Hillary in the clinton years. Saw some cindy mcain disses, does that have alternate meanings too? Nevermind, that was Skip and he clearly hates rich people ;) I kid, I kid. Real question being where will it end?

Rich, thanks for backing me up.

Carmen Hathaway

Darkest!

Skip Hunt

Don't know what you're talking about...

I don't hate rich people... I like them quite well.... with just the right BBQ sauce. ;-)

And I'm not voting for either of the major candidates either! As of today.. I'm voting for La Pequena Sarah Palin in the YouTube video Darkest posted. That lil' dude gets MY vote sistah!!!

LOL

Kristi Taylor

Can't argue with that. La Pequena Sarah Palin is pretty freakin cool.

Darkest Artist

the dancing in front of the flag is probably my favorite part...

Charles Peck

.... to stop laughing long enough to type but I was wondering if I might once again be the offending party with my mention of the historical nature of the southern blossoming of the republican party?
If so I'm sure with careful reading one would see I was only referencing the dixie-crat element of the Democratic Party that ran to private christian schools and the republican party when segregation was outlawed by the Federal government - not those good folks with sound economic sense and love of the Bill of Rights that traditionaly made the base of the old Republican Party of days of yore.
Oh yeah, haven't changed or added a thing to what I wrote ... now if you're upset that I don't agree with your conclusions about politics and am sure enough of my standing as a citizen to voice my opinion - sorry about your luck, Oh yeah, have read most all of Obama's positions and agree with at least 80% of them so it seems a logical thing to prefer and vote for Obama and not the canidate that I disagree with at least 70% of the time.
This new revelation about corporate powers running the world was mentioned first I think by Buckminster Fuller in "Spaceship Earth" referred to by Alvin Toffler in "Power Shift" and the basis (one of anyway) of Kevin Phillips "American Theocracy" (Kevin was tapped by Nixon to be a deep thinker for the repubs but left the party in W's second term, I think) ... one could agrue it is a natural outcome of continued nationstate growth and conflict, eventually one will win it all if "WE" don't decide that we are all alike in essence and support dignity and respect for who don't attempt to hurt others.

Kristi Taylor

... pretty sure I didn't challenge your conclusions about anything unless you are giving republicans as a whole some serious evil ahole points (which I don't get from your posts)

Oh well, no matter what at least we can agree on Dylan.

Todd Peterson

I take it You mean a return to the tax rates We had under Reagan, which is what overturning Bush's tax cuts on the top 5% is, or do You believe that passing on the debt that has been run up, during those tax cuts to the next generation fair? By arrogant, did You mean uppity? Oh o k I kid I kid

Rich Milo

OBAMA = ROBINHOOD. LOL.
Be gentle now.

Skip Hunt

My favorite part of La Pequena is when "she" says "I don't want war, I want peace." and then "she" starts rubbing "her" lil' package. Priceless! ;-)

Vota por La Pequena Sarah Palin!!!

Charles Peck

I wanted to call you little John but I'm not sure that was the big guys name - don't remember enough of the story to make allusions I guess. This next part is not to you Rich
I'm just using this space and time to get some stuff off my chest and I'm not even sure what it will be until I reread it but here goes.

I don't know what to say to folks who have not figured out what their heart tells them is the right thing to do this late in the game, I mean it is not like this electioneering theater just started last week or something. Maybe just go talk to the friend you go to when life gets overwhelming and ask them what you should do. I would suggest no one will find a party platform they agree with 100% of the time more than a very few times in their life (and then most likely only when they are young) so one is left with picking the horse that will do the least damage and help the Republic the most.
Trickle down has come to bear fruit and as that old Hebrew Tribe's History Book says "Judge a tree by the Fruit it bears". As the irreverent gadflys said when that monkey business got started " trickle down my eye, they are just pissing on your head". If the top predators in our economy were going to further the economy with their wealth then how come working wages have lost ground when adjusted for inflation over the last 20 years and the middle class is loosing ground financially. How come when I was a kid coming up a common working man at a regular labor based job could buy a used car, a house, and have his young wife stay home and look after the young children and now only the well employed professional or the wealthy can think of such? There is not one thing about this system in place that is working according to design and if iit doesn't get back to working for the betterment of the majority all the spin in the world will come to sound as hollow as it is. The wealthy have been allowed to rape the American Public financially and it will not go on for long one way or another. We need to remember the values of the village or small community and apply them to this nation as a whole if we wish it to remain.

Charles Peck

of an old "Tens Years After" song "I just wanna ... get some piece or something similiar.

Todd Peterson

the whole idea of the Bush tax cuts was that they would help stimulate the economy? Doesn't seem to have worked very well. I'm lucky enough to live someplace where 1K is still a nice chunk of money, I guess the big houses up on the hill is where it only amounts to peanuts.

Ernie Scott- Dust Rising Studios

"Somewhere along the way, the democratic party became a leftist-socialistic ideal. As people now lambaste the Republican Party, they fail to realize that, It is really the Democratic Party of the past that they are poking and kicking around. The Republican Party, with it's own mire, castrated, as seen now, IS the Democratic Party of the past. Ideals, belief. etc...'' - Dave M. -friend of mine, said while in a heated discussion....

This is what this gentleman said, that the Democratic Party has been hi-jacked, so to speak. What do you guys think?

Todd Peterson

I tend to think it's the "grand old party" that's been hijacked. They want to legislate morality, build empire, split the country with declarations that Your either with Us or against Us, and seem to be strongly for a spend and borrow policy, that average Americans know is a great way to back Yourself into a corner where You have to service Your debt. To say that by not renewing Bush's tax breaks for Americas wealthiest that We are flirting with Socialism, is ludicrous in light of bailing out the banking system for a trillion dollars. I don't recall hearing anywhere that the top officials in these institutions have to liquidate any assets or sell any homes, to pitch in and save the businesses they ran into the ground. You can bet Your ass that if Bob the plumber runs His business into the ground, He'd have to start selling something off to rescue Himself. Before Reagan changed the tax code, once You made 3 million a year (adjusted for inflation) people paid something like 70% on any amount above that lofty figure. Teddy Roosevelt initiated the progressive tax system, with the correct thinking that those who made the most used the commons (Highways, central banking, the courts system) more than those who made less. For those 70 years America flourished and grew, and built an infrastructure the world envied. Then along came the baby boomer Republicans, Who believe they are bigger than America, or that they are the only true Americans. When growing up there was the kid who would open His package of twinkies and offer to share, and there was the spoiled little prick that jammed both into His mouth, and mumbled "mine mine", and I guess that's why I lean towards the Democrats, I never felt like eating two twinkies.

Darkest Artist

and after I watched Michael Moore's "Sicko" last night, I was ready to move someplace else...just the issue of Health Care alone and the difference between the two candidates is like night and day. If you don't agree with 1k being a decent bit of change, or if you can't stand the thought of your kids putting down the video games and actually WORKING in the community in order to pay for college, then you're not the type of person I typically befriend. My mantra was always "friends don't let friends marry republicans" ;)

But Health Care ALONE, either you realize that our nation's Health Care is totally unfair and completely screwed and take a cue from the other "socialist" health care systems that have been shown to work, or you don't care about medical bills and enjoy the concept of McCain's 5k "tax credit" for medical. It sickens me that people all over our "great" nation have to choose on a daily basis between food and medication. I hope if Obama wins, he finds a way to convince Hillary to manage the Health Care and get this crap fixed, because it's unacceptable. And if you haven't yet seen Sicko, find it. rent it. my local library had it. It was appalling that our 9/11 rescue workers, our HEROES, were refused medical care, and in one part of the film, Moore puts them all on boats and takes them to Guantanamo Bay where the 9/11 hijackers and terrorists are being held and RECEIVING FREE AND FANTASTIC MEDICAL CARE. He ends up taking three boats full of 9/11 workers (mostly with PTSD or respiratory issues) to CUBA. FREAKING CUBA, a communist country, and they get free medical care and their fire department actually stood at attention for all of these rescue workers out of respect. it's amazing. jaw-dropping in a very unbelievably disgusting manner.

Rich Milo

My solution...... I am flying out to see Charles he will then take my wife and I on that boat of his and drop us off on a remote island. There we will spend the rest of our days in peace and harmony with nature. Wait did I say my wife and peace and harmony all in the same sentence.......wait Charles I might have to rethink this a bit. I will be in touch.

Kevin Callahan

You might want to be careful here. Charles MIGHT get the idea to drop you off a few miles short of the island and take your wife with him. If he asks you to anchor the boat, make sure the rope isn't tied to your ankle. Eh, eh, eh.

Todd Peterson

Good luck, You have Me laughing out loud, (but don't tell My wife) have a great day pardner

Charles Peck

and while you're at it just set that anchor, all right? You know buddy I got a thing for strong women and any woman still with you got to be strong ... wait a minute, hmmmm did I just hear checkmate!!!
Naw man I do know a nice nearby barrier Island State Park "Cayo Costa" with some nice wood ah, oh I guess huts would be close, to rent - real roughing it, and if you anchor in the hidden bay there (pelican bay) you can stay for as long as you want - which will be until the next hurricane comes to clean the environment - which could be next month or 2 generations from now.
Hey the fishing is really good.

Charles Peck

go. Both seem to be shape shifters trying to stay current with the culture of the moment. I used to have these discussions with my dad and his peer group and they would claim they were a member of Lincoln's Republican Party and I would ask what happened to J.P.Morgan's Republican Party and they would claim that small group of money grubbers were not the heart and soul of the party.
As I have previously mentioned the dixiecrat influx wasn't an accident because Kevin Phillips (who I previiously mentioned) was a professor in Arizona (I think) that wrote a paper in '65 about the emerging republican majority (which of course was yet to come) and mapped out the path it took to get there in this paper - he was tapped for duty in the inner circles of party thinkers and planners by Nixon when he won based on that paper (he was offended enough by the present state of affairs to leave the party in W's 2nd term and maybe his growing maturity also).

The Demo's have just as convoluted a history also - changing sides that is and ended up being the defenders of the working class a result of the Union movement and their epiphany on human rights with Kennedy and Johnson (who was dumb enough to be red baited by Goldwater and to prove he wasn't soft on commies created the Gulf of Tonkin incident that blew up the conflict in Nam where he tried to wipe out my generation of workers kids - funny how all this weaves together) ... Oh hell, this is an art site not a history site - paint your way to freedom after you vote based on your gut level independent analysis of the present situation by what you "KNOW" nothing else. Trust yourself like you do when you paint and don't be afraid of the unknown, in fact go there because you don't know.

The Greed monsters that created the world wide economic/credit/bank crash of today (trillions of "stolen citizen money/gov. tax $" are being shoveled out as fast as can be done worldwide to stop the hemorfhaging so food still is available) were allowed to expose and exercise their avaricious, lying, arrogant selves only with the collusion of the present 8 year reign who stopped the truth from being told to the voting public many times ... in my mind a treasonable offence.

Charles Peck

quite timely, nicely done but I know you are just being 'koi' about all things blue.

Carmen Hathaway

Charles.....almost did title it 'Coy Koi' but that title's hardly an innovation...so went with the obvious, albeit it staid, 'Blue Koi'. Should've tossed in some red fish then, eh?

Hold on thar Babalooey -- Dr Suess beat me to that one....One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. Oh NO.
It was thinly disguised political propaganda all along. I do not like thee, Sam I am. Uncle Sam? Slick.

Darkest Artist

Dr. Seuss was a genius! I read his books all the time, but he has some really fantastic quotations and theories that are not in books. like this one:

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

Carmen Hathaway

Suessy Q here for a sec........



And further to that
This cat in her hat
Knows if your life should go splat
It isn't the rat
That helps you get mind over matter.     ;)

Todd Peterson

Don't cry because it's over, Smile, because it happened

Today You are You, that is truer than true, there is no one alive that is Youer than You

(the good Doctor Suess)

Charles Peck

copy of Dr. Suess's writings and check out mister "green eggs and ham" - which is all I know about him ... and what I've seen here.

Darkest Artist

check out "Seussisms" http://www.seussville.com/titles/seussisms/

it's got bits of wit from his books as well as direct quotations. I never realized when i was younger how political a lot of his stuff is, and now I love that it is ;)

and Todd, is that the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing? LOL

Charles Peck

angel of them all ... just flowed off the keyboard, no intended allusions here.

Darkest Artist

i get that sometimes :) as one of my favorite songs goes,

"Oh you sad one
Playing the angel
Isn't so easy where you're from.."

it's called The Darkest Star, which is part of where i came up with "darkest artist" since if you squinch it all together, darkestartist, you can see darkest star in there. it's by depeche mode

Todd Peterson

Nah, just some puppet telling Me He has the key

Carson Collins

(rhymes with 'spinach') has the "key".

But he's way too short and jug-eared to be an 'alpha-male' - and way too humanistic and truthful (i.e. dangerous) to be allowed to debate on national TV, that is , Time/Warner (a subsidiary of Raytheon, aka General Electric, the world's largest manufacturers of nuclear power plants and war weapons for export - one of the few manufacturing jobs we haven't (yet) exported to China). Or Rupert Murdock, also known as Fox "news" - which any delta-minus moron can see is the cheer-leading section for the RNC. Can you spell "depleted uranium", little boys and girls? Here's a hint: it has something to do with "Gulf War Syndrome" - if you can remember what that is.

But that was then and this is now. Vote for OBAMA. He's the lesser of two weevils.

Carmen Hathaway

is a neat expression. First came across it here.

Darkest Artist

for the weevil thing. interesting reading. I have sent many people here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp

because they don't know the truth from the lies about Obama, and many of them DO listen to the media (not FOX but CNN, ABC, NBC, etc) and hear snippets of gossip at work about how he's an evil muslim born in EVIL LAND and how he eats children for breakfast (well maybe not the last one, but you know what i mean)

Rich Milo

Well do you really think that it matters what religion Obama is. That is silly in light of the fact that he is about to become the leader of "Mystery Babylon". REVELATION 17-18.

Darkest Artist

i think religion has nothing to do with a person's qualifications to be President.

Skip, you need to watch something BESIDES La Pequena Sarah Palin. May I recommend this?

Todd Peterson

His religion shouldn't matter.As for the other part, well Carson's Mom said it best. Now I need to see if I can find a band-aid for My tongue

Skip Hunt

Too late Darkest... La Pequena Sarah Palin and I already tied the not and are honeymooning in the Maldives. We both spent the day snorkeling and are now sipping cocktails and eating kettle corn. Wish you were here!!!

John Mc Dermott

The very fact that someone prays reverently to an invisible mythological being should immediately disbar anyone from public office.

(Apologises in advance of anyone being offended by that – As God is my judge this - is of course a very personal point of view)

Charles Peck

else that requires or benefits from a clear mind. The Human being is so amazing that it can go through life with the most outta whack goop for a guiding principle and still survive. I find it amazing ... not unlike trying to cross a busy urban street and thinking vehicles are imaginary metaphyiscal mentors mobilized mentally to protect one from evil spirits hunting your body for use as a dog pen ... and not get splattered with the first forward movement.

Skip Hunt

Anyone catch this story about a Texas woman's "claim" of being attacked in Pennsylvania by a Barack supporter because of her McCain sticker on her SUV? Seriously... these people are really starting to not only embarrass themselves... they're starting to embarrass the human race at large. How could idiots like this be allowed to reproduce?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/24/mccain.sticker/index.html

Carmen Hathaway

you know very well that vermin reproduce at alarming rates. It's their only way of staking a claim.

Skip Hunt

Ahhh!!! So THAT's why they call it the "Rat Race" ;-)

Darkest Artist

you guys crack me up! Nice video, Skip! I am glad you and Mrs. Palin have found happiness at last. I know how hard it must be for "her" to put past her MAVERICK ways and tie herself down to a terrorist-supporting liberal! ;)

and hey, what do you guys think of this?
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_brother_calls_911_to_complain_1023.html

all that came to mind was this!

Todd Peterson

I've been meaning to ask, How did Eric's audition go for the band?

Darkest Artist

he got it, he nailed it the first song at the audition. His first show is Halloween Night. I'm trying to convince him to be Sweeney Todd ;) thanks for asking! he's very excited about it. they will be playing in many places, and if they're ever close to your neck of the woods, I will be sure to let you guys know!

Darkest Artist

and need a laugh, there are plenty to be had here:

Charles Peck

for that clip. One of the things I miss not having a tv is Saturday Night Live - and this one was very instructive - everybody should have to watch it on the way to the polling place.

Darkest Artist

ala Clockwork Orange...hold those eyes open! i get a lot of my "news" from Olbermann, Jon Stewart, David Alan grier....people who call it as they see it. lol. it helps that it makes me laugh. i think every day needs one good laugh in it, and if i don't have one, i look for it, because life is too damn short to be so serious and if you can't laugh, you ain't livin!

Skip Hunt

"ala a Clockwork Orange..." etc. Like EYES WIDE OPEN... my fav.... right next to Lynch. :-)

Darkest Artist

david lynch is amazing! one of the best to ever work the field....do you listen to any of his music as well? again we have parallels...twin peaks has yet to be surpassed as far as a tv series goes, if you ask me :) that, and i like pie :)

Todd Peterson

Show is just wrapping up at Altered Esthetics. Last night they had their closing Friday. They served coffee and had a huge tray of Doughnuts (spelled English style for John) For the opening reception the Director of the gallery was dressed as the log lady. They have the photos up now at www.alteredesthetics.com

Carson Collins

My favorite 'musical'.

Darkest Artist

I never could think of "singing in the rain" the same way after Clockwork Orange....but my favorite "musical" is STILL Sweeney Todd. funny that, i'm a vegetarian but find those "meat pies" hilarious...

Darkest Artist

speaking of clockwork orange....lol.

and this comes from our favorite rightwing media:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426485,00.html

any thoughts on this? and does anyone know where I put my tinfoil hat? lol

John Mc Dermott

Much appreciated Todd!
I feel like a bloody doughnut now having re-kindled the war of Independance. (Looking to the skies for the 82nd to arrive in my back garden - anytime now)

Darkest Artist

you bring to mind that scene in a Fish Called Wanda, where John Cleese is stuck in the blacktop and Ken is about to steamroll him ;)

Joyce Owens

did a very interesting thing. The show producers traveled through Pennsylvania with political volunteers and let us listen to Democrats for McCain and other people who simply proclaimed their racism as the reason to not vote for Obama. And many who are able to support the best candidate after taking race off the table.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=367


The free podcast does not appear to be up yet, but you may find it a fascinating and surprising listen when it is. I sure did.

Ozy Kroll

...omg. I hope no one has a bad day before getting to the airport. Are you still upset about the taxi that cut you off on the way into the airport? Sorry you'll be missing your flight today but we're going to be asking you some more questions. Scares me!

I think a great place to test it is at the doorways going into the House and Senate chambers.

Is it tin foil or aluminum foil?

Carmen Hathaway

in men's airport washrooms. Watch for those senators whistling 'Come Fly With me' as they're scrabbling along.

Noredin Morgan

Now that we finally have equal rights, only for about 44 years now, let's hope the racism will lift and all people in this country will have equal education and job opportunities.

Joyce Owens on 10/25/2008 - 4:09 PM













 

Carmen Hathaway

My father fought for our country in WW2 -- Status Indians were not allowed to vote in Federal Elections until 1960.