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Lian Zhen

3 Years Ago

'ambition' Is Psychic Not Politic

Some people prefer to insist that ambition is politic, I should rather analyse ambition on its psychic impacts and not on its political impacts. Why are people so scared of politics? Who have made it dirty and dangerous? In fact, politics as well as religions are dreams and ideals, they are clean and beautiful, but who have made them dirty and dangerous? Why do we make them dirty and dangerouos? Who is responsable for this mess? The Bible says: We want to do so much good, but we are as weak and faible as weeds, what is good always turn to become worse and messy.

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Christine Till

3 Years Ago

You're amazing, Lian. I admire your persistence.
However, politic IS dirty and dangerous ... and religions ARE dreams and ideals, but not necessarily clean and beautiful.
And ambitions are nothing but a desire, but most certainly not psychic.

I see this thread being closed very soon as well.

 

Loretta Luglio

3 Years Ago

They are both subject to being used to fulfill the agenda of men to maintain control and power.

 

Shasta Eone

3 Years Ago

Both are of man's making and imperfect. Because they are, philosophy, science and religion .... cannot agree.

Both tend to be a birthplace for polarization which we have yet to resolve.

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

"Better a dry crust eaten in peace than a house filled with feasting—and conflict."

This is probably how Beth feels.

It is too bad though, that a group of "adults" are not able to share and discuss important topics, like politics and religion. You would think as artists, there would be openness and acceptance and respect of our differences. You would expect "Freedom of Speech" to be an value upheld in a group like this. Freedom of Speech only seems to exists, if what you say, agrees with the consensus of the majority.

EDIT - Then again, this is a privately owned business site. Based on recent outbursts, I understand why it is not allowed here.

@ Lian,

You can always join the group "If you can't stand the heat".

 

Shasta Eone

3 Years Ago



If we could speak the Truth which is neither "right nor wrong" , " negative or positive " .... then THAT discussion most likely could, would and should be allowed.

 

Mike Savad

3 Years Ago

because people argue too much about either topic because both sides think they are right. that's why it's banned.


---Mike Savad

 

Alfred Ng

3 Years Ago

In case you haven't notice, this forum is called "fine art discussions" it is better to air your view on politic at more suitable site? How is your art doing? Any new works to share?

 

P S

P S

3 Years Ago

To some extent art is political, in that art is not made in a vacuum...

This is how inefficient and kafkaesque politics works in Belgium ( beat Iraq's record for being the longest time without a government after elections ) and why I stay away from it as much as possible and didn't vote the last times, even though it's 'mandatory' :











 

Poe Ed

3 Years Ago

Could it be possible for an artist to detach her art from politics and religions? However, I think that Tiny by Nature is very wise by throwing his hands in the air to accept the reality that "Then again, this is a privately owned business site..."


Sell Art Online

Description:

Do we laugh or weep
In times when men¡¯ ambitions rise to exaggerated heights,
When perjuries and injuries fly like bullets in the air,
When mistrusts fill the sky and
When going mad is the mode of the day?
When our vanities have become hysteric
And our arrogance has turned sour
Do we still call us great?
Is it worthwile to sacrifice
Thousands of lives,
Families torn apart
Hearts broken
And sins committed in the dark
All these
Only to capture and kill two madmen ?
We cannot find the answers
Because our minds are blind
May God open our minds
So that we can see the light,Amen!


Photography Prints

Description:

Once upon a time, a devil waged war in the Orient, almost all of Asia was devastated by its brutality and its savageries. A certain Mr, Bully from the west came to domesticate it with two powerful magic eggs, and put the devil into Solomen¡¯s bottle , hence has been assigned to play the roll of guardian to the devil, since at that time some of the Asian countries were engaged in civil wars and had no time to pay attention to it.
Now it seems that the devil and its guardian have a dirty deal.The guardian says : ¡®I have collected some precious stones from South China Sea, they are of all shapes, some pointed,some rugged ,some smooth and some round etc, now I put them under your care,sooner or later these may be yours, just be patient.To be master of the globe was once your dream,now it is our dream ,my dear!¡¯
What is more terrible about the joined venture of the devil and its gurdian is that they plan to incite a war in the Pacific using these precious stones as a kind of fuel to ignite quarrels,frustrations,desires and anger in the area. May God bless us and put this evil union back to conscience,Amen!



Art Prints

Description:

This is a time when all dreams should come to an end,
When power and money maliciously mock at civilization
As if it is but a child¡¯s game.
He who holds on to his dreams of ¡®peace and harmony¡¯
Is called a bubbler head
¡®Peace¡¯ was yesterday¡¯s fable
And ¡®Humanity¡¯ is a floating bubble.
Pacific Ocean is a satire
Because when war devils rise from their graves
And walk hand in hand with war bullies,
¡°Pacific¡¯ will soon change to ¡®Horrific¡¯
And the blue waters will soon turn bloody red.
Our stomachs are too much fill with ¡®numbers¡¯
We have no space for wisdom
We only have wits for wars and arms.
May God quench our thirst for power and money
And help us open to humane-heartedness,Amen !

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

Those who think they are right in their beliefs often attempt to impose their beliefs on others. So much cultural pressure on individuals to join a group, team, club, so forth and so on. hurray for us, the hell with you!, this goes for religion as well.

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

Then there are those that do not have "beliefs" and decide that those who do, should not be allowed to share and/or practice them. They also refuse to understand or accept, that their lack of belief, is a belief in and of itself. Their refusal to allow others to share their own beliefs, is the true imposition. If a member here, was to post a verse from the Bible on the forum, some would cry that they are being imposed upon. Really?? I don't think so, that reaction is childish. People can "choose" to read or not too read something. They can "choose" to not enter a thread. But no, the very fact it is there at all, rots them to the gut and they scream till it is removed. Who is really "imposing" their beliefs on others?


 

Drew

3 Years Ago

Whatz dat?

Photography Prints

Got it...never mind....

 

Shasta Eone

3 Years Ago



Anyone should be free to do as they durn well please ... at anytime ...anywhere .... ( THAT too is a belief. )

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

@Shasta,

Yes they are.....if they stay within the law. Even then, there are those that have no use for the laws either (moral or societal) and will push the boundaries to new levels. Take Kermit Gosnell, for example.

A person is also free to believe/not believe whatever they like, as long as they do not infringe or impede the beliefs/practices/expression of someone else. Someone who has faith and/or believes in organized religion, is not taking away another individuals freedom to not believe. Yet, those who do not believe, go out of their way to silence and impede religion, religious practice and religious expression. Why is that?

I am not fully sure, what you are getting at?

Beth or JC. I am keeping this away from discussion of "religion" itself. I am discussing the freedom of expression, relating to religion and/or politics. This seems to be challenged, by some, in this thread. If you are not happy with this, let me know and I will stop.

Thanks.



 

Shasta Eone

3 Years Ago



" Yes they are.....if they stay within the law " ..... politics and law are separate one from the other ? There is still a law on some books in some states where it is against the law to spit on the sidewalk.


I'm gone,... too busy to nit pick this stuff.

 

You are okay so far

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

[quote] politics and law are separate one from the other? [quote]

@ Shasta,

huh?? It is politicians who write our laws. The law has Everything to do with politics.

If what you are saying is true and you were to spit on a sidewalk in some States, it would be up to an officer to decide whether or not to fine you.



 

Drew

3 Years Ago

The law is the law!.....
Photography Prints


Move over preacher and let me have a shot:


Photography Prints



 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

LOL

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

had to clean it up alittle ;)

 

Shasta Eone

3 Years Ago


" huh?? It is politicians who write our laws. The law has Everything to do with politics. "

EXACTLY ! That is what I was saying .


Harmonizing, with the Law, is spiritual.

Understanding the Law, is mental.

Enforcing the Law, is physical.


..... done, gone , clocked out. :))



 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

[quote] EXACTLY ! That is what I was saying . [quote]

@ Shasta,

Exactly what? You haven't "said" anything. At least not anything that makes any sense?? :)

First you say that a person should be able to do whatever they like, whenever they like. I responded by adding, that this can be done, as long as the individual stays within our current laws. You responded with a question, as to whether or not politics and law is separate from each other. (not sure why you brought politics into it). I answered, that of course the two are related, as it is politics and politicians that make our laws.

Now you say, that this is exactly what you have been saying.... LOL!!

@ H Drew,

Although I find your last post funny, it is childish antics like this that make mature discussions about touchy subjects, impossible on FAA. It is too bad.

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

Photography Prints


LMAO!

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

It is good to know, that if one is unable to put together a coherent and educated statement of opinion and/or thought, they can always turn to cheap animations :)

When I used to debate, it was easy to tell that the nail was in the coffin, when the other side resorted to things like this. There were no animations in debate, thank goodness, so it still remained somewhat mature.

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

he he he
Photography Prints


 

Viktor Savchenko

3 Years Ago

There is the law. And there is interpretation of the law.
There is a country. And there is a government of country.

 

So, is this actually going anywhere now I left it open or are we just sharing animations in it?

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

I don't know Beth. It was actually becoming a "discussion", but seemed to turn quickly.

It is not my thread, so not mine to shut down.

:)

 

Mike Savad

3 Years Ago

can we at least share different animations?


---Mike Savad

 

Poe Ed

3 Years Ago

@ Tiny by Nature. I totally respect you for your courage in shaking and challenging the “status quo” to make things better (or worse). I have my hat off for your noble thought and action.

FYI: Please take into account the fact that different people have different ways of communication. I subjectively think that it is normal for a visual artist to use his drawings or animations in his debates. You have the right to have your own opinion about the other people’s communication style. Yet, when you openly made it known to the public, don’t you think that such a conclusion should be less judgmental?



It’s a Matter of Choice

it’s absolutely his right
to believe in
what
written
in the holy book of his own religion

when
he’s blindly preaching his own belief
in the public
he
opens
a can of worms
for heated debates
cool heads may be inflamed
his almighty God could be drowned
deep down
in mud

what is the point to do it?

2013-04-29

 

Lian Zhen

3 Years Ago

Poe Ed : If there is no point in doing anything, we can as well remain numb and deaf. If I say that it is good to wake up in the sunlight, I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone, I am just celebrating my joy of existence. If I weep for the killing of the innocent to enlarge your greatness, I am
accusing crimes and sins in a personal manner. It is blunt and sad truth that some human sins and crimes are not confined by laws,but they are confined by our consciousness.
Tiny: animations can be profound and can be thin, it is this flexibility that gives it charm.
Christine Till: To be a great leader is a desire, to be a racist is an ambition, in other words, ambition is a different degree of desires, and desires can turn to sickness. I t can become a disease.
The origin of both Politics and Religions can be clean and beautiful , only they can become rotten. This is a sad truth.

 

Dean Harte

3 Years Ago

This reminds me of a statement made by John Lennon: "Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

Same with other religions, politics etc etc. The ideas may be good but what we people turn it into, fueled by our agendas, insecurities is what ruins it. Communism on paper is a wonderful concept, but just doesn't seem to work in reality.

 

Ricardo De Almeida

3 Years Ago

"There's a pothole in front of my house... I pray the city sends somebody to fix it".


 

Poe Ed

3 Years Ago

Lian, your consistency reminds me of those Jehovah's Witnesses showing at my door to convince me that I should believe in God or else my soul will be burnt in hell.

Your point is well-taken. Now, I must leave the sunlight for you and go back to my darkness for a good nap.

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

The subjects relative to religion and/or politics no matter what subversive manner they are presented; on this and any other art forum will ether lead to exclusion, controversial debate, chastisement, anger, hatred gang mentality or any combination thereof. This forum is nothing but a microcosm of society as a whole.
Religion and/or politics are the main reasons coupled with economics for war. What makes anyone on this forum think they can control said subject without any of the mentioned event occurring?

Animation is an art form and has a greater relevance than any diatribe constructed by controversy mongers to this forum.

Photography Prints

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

[quote] Those who think they are right in their beliefs often attempt to impose their beliefs on others. So much cultural pressure on individuals to join a group, team, club, so forth and so on. hurray for us, the hell with you!, this goes for religion as well.[quote]Posted by: H Drew on 04/29/2013 - 10:10 AM

[quote]Animation is an art form and has a greater relevant than any diatribe constructed by controversy mongers to this forum. [quote]

@ H. Drew,

You talk about "controversy mongers" on the FAA forum, yet what would you call your post above, from April 29 10:10? Do you think that comment was controversial? Were you talking about yourself, in that statement? You are so sure of what you believe, that you would do everything in your power, to silence and quench the beliefs of others. You have shown this, over and over again, in this forum.

I will still continue to argue, like I did after your post, that those who try to silence a persons right to expression, whether religious, political or anything else, are the ones who are "IMPOSING" their beliefs on others. For me to share my beliefs, is not imposing anything on you. When you share your opinions with regards to religion on other threads, I do not find it imposing, even though you are quite strong in those beliefs. Why do you feel so "imposed" upon, if someone mentions something religious and is it my responsibility that you feel this way.? Do I have to change who I am, or what I express, in order that you can feel more "comfortable"? That would be like telling someone who is gay, that they need to hide it and not express their true feelings, because it may make some "uncomfortable". Most would never stand for that, so why is it any different when it comes to someones freedom, to express their faith?

The only one imposing their beliefs in this forum is you and the others who fight to silence any talk, or expression, of religion.



 

Drew

3 Years Ago

Case and point, thanks Tiny for your example of diatribe!

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

LOL. @ H Drew, How is what I just said "diatribe". There is nothing bitter or abusive, in what I just wrote.

I am defending a position, that you have challenged in this thread. Is only your side, allowed to be shared now Drew? Is there anything else, you would like silenced on this forum?

I am sure you would like to have me silenced, like so many others on this forum who share the same faith, have been. I get the private messages, thanking me for continuing to fight against this kind of hypocrisy. People are tired of it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT - here is one - a quick note once more because I want you to continue~

As always, you are the voice of reason on the forum!! :O)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






 

Drew

3 Years Ago

Case and Point, Thanks Tiny for your example of chastisement!

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

-----

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

[quote] Case and point......[quote]

@ H Drew,

The only case and point that has been proven here, is that INTOLERANCE is still alive and well. Intolerance to the point, that some individuals will go out of their way, to ensure that religious expression is silenced. Intolerance is intolerance, no matter what it is directed at. The constant attempts to silence the freedom to express individual faith, is no different than telling a homosexual to keep quiet, so as not to offend anyone.

If people are going to fight for the freedom to express, then it has to be across the board. We can't just pick and choose the expressions, that make us "comfortable". That means sexuality/gender,religion,political etc...

We are not all going to agree with each other, when it comes to personal expressions in these areas, but you can't allow some and silence others.

If someone expressed their individual sexuality, as being a homosexual, would you/I feel imposed upon because we might be straight? Or feel that because this person is using their freedom to express themselves, that they are trying to change who I am? Are they trying to make me gay? That is ridiculous. It is no more ridiculous than some here claiming that by a religious person, expressing their faith, they are in some way trying to impose upon or change you. (like in the quote below) Or at other times on this forum, with accusations of proselytizing. How insane is that?

[quote]Those who think they are right in their beliefs often attempt to impose their beliefs on others. So much cultural pressure on individuals to join a group, team, club, so forth and so on. hurray for us, the hell with you!, this goes for religion as well.[quote]Posted by: H Drew on 04/29/2013 - 10:10 AM

That does not mean, we all have to agree with one another. How boring would that be? We also have the right to express, that we disagree with an individual expression. However, that freedom to express disagreement or even speak out against something, does not include the right to silence it or take it away.

You can have your "Case and Point" moment all you like. However, nothing has been accomplished, but to show how twisted intolerance really is.

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

Case and point, thanks Tiny for your example #2 of diatribe!

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

@ H Drew,

Do you know what diatribe is?

Diatribe - a bitter and abusive speech or piece of writing Ironic or satirical criticism

Being passionate about a subject, is not diatribe. Writing with conviction, is not diatribe.

This is diatribe: - it is written with spite and bitterness.

[quote]Those who think they are right in their beliefs often attempt to impose their beliefs on others. So much cultural pressure on individuals to join a group, team, club, so forth and so on. hurray for us, the hell with you!, this goes for religion as well.[quote]Posted by: H Drew on 04/29/2013 - 10:10 AM

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

Case and point, thanks Tiny for your example of [any combination thereof]

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

@Lian Zhen

I would have to agree 100% that raw art is at the psychic level. Psychic may translate to spiritual and/or political in return that may explain why so much art is of a political and spiritual nature. On an individual level, that is where art is often appreciated. At the social level, political and spiritual understanding differ from person to person and culture to culture. These differences have repeatedly lead to open and often hateful debate. This sort of debate has no place for a forum when its main objective is to unite except under one exception. That exception is to find common ground within the difference individual and cultural diversities. This takes a true commitment in tolerance and respect. The constant insistence of being correct with disregard to cultural and individual considerations typically undermines tolerance.
Thanks you for allowing me to render an opinion on the matter and given us yours.
Peace, Drew

 

Lian Zhen

3 Years Ago

Who can remain calm and smiling when confronting human evils? I am the one full of spite and bitterness when confronting human evilness.

 

Lian Zhen

3 Years Ago

Animations are for the thin and the profound, if you see my animations are cheap because you are too thin to see its profoundity, it is your fault not mine,eh?

 

Christine Till

3 Years Ago


It's always someone else's fault. Isn't it?

 

P S

P S

3 Years Ago

"If people are going to fight for the freedom to express, then it has to be across the board. We can't just pick and choose the expressions, that make us "comfortable". That means sexuality/gender,religion,political etc... "

Freedom of expression or speech doesn't mean that the one doing the expression should therefore be listened to or be taken seriously. In the U.S. freedom of speech can be taken to an extreme. Look at the brainwashed Westboro Baptist Church people for example, whose 'freedom of speech' isn't and wouldn't be allowed in many other countries. On the other hand, it may be better and less dangerous for a society if those with such deranged views are able to expose themselves in their expressions, for what they are, rather than silencing them completely and not knowing what plays inside their mind.


"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard

 

Delete Delete

3 Years Ago

@ Philip,

I agree and I agree. :) I do not think well, of what the Westboro group has to say. However, if we take away their right to expression, it becomes a very slippery slope. Freedom to express all of the things, you quoted from my last post, is extremely important. However, at times the line is crossed and it becomes hate. As a society, we need to be able to recognize the difference and trust that the appropriate authorities will act on it. The problem arises, when society jumps on every opinion expressed and cries.... hate, hate, hate. It is like crying "wolf".

I will give you an example. Here in Ontario an individual was reported to the police and to the Ontario Human Rights Commission, for publicly quoting and releasing a study that involved "traditional" marriage vs "alternative" marriage. (I will not go into the details and findings, of the study, as it is not important.). The wrong person received it and as a result the police were called and a "hate" crime was reported. The individual was not speaking "hatred", the study was not even theirs. The police did not press charges, but it is up in the air, with the Human Rights Commission.

It is this kind of "crying wolf", that waters down and blurs the line, between expressing "opinion" and speaking "hatred". It is getting to the point now, that every time an individual expresses an opinion a "group" (any group) in society does not agree with and goes against their own personal beliefs, the "hatred" card is played. We are so easily offended, it is impossible to have an opinion on anything and if you do, best keep it to yourself.

Hatred is easily discerned and should not be taken lightly. You can hear it, in the tone and/or the way it is written. Hate is spiteful, bitter, vengeful.

Having opinions and expressing values, ideals, beliefs, is part of what makes us human. That freedom, should not be taken away and/or silenced.


 

P S

P S

3 Years Ago

"Having opinions and expressing values, ideals, beliefs, is part of what makes us human. That freedom, should not be taken away and/or silenced."

Yes, that would be the ideal. It's hard to distinguish between a negative reaction to something as being its own freedom of speech or being the thing that's repressing the freedom of speech it is reacting against.
I see freedom of speech as the extension of ones culture. So how free is it really, since nobody is born free from culture, at least not when it comes to politics and religion. If I'm bothered with someone expressing their religion or political views, it says something more about me ( good or bad ) than about the religion or politics being expressed, and that's the hard part, to remove oneself from ones own culture and identity in order to understand and tolerate other cultures.

 

Drew

3 Years Ago

@ Philip-Very intelligent!

 

This discussion is closed.

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