Orcrist The Troll Slayer

True Drew.

It's a step in the right direction though. I suppose one of the definitions of "troll" might expand postings in the discussion area. It's this one : "A line or bait used in trolling for fish." Good analogy for some of what we get here as a common practice. :)

Need an expert Troll Slayer. Perhaps one with a degree in troll chasing.

I see nothing wrong with throwing out a tantalizing tidbit to spark a countering POV. it's all in the manner in which it is done and how the counter point is presented. There are explicit guidelines on how we conduct our selves on the forum. My biggest pet peeve is to let the moderators moderate, and the thread originator be the only member who is not a moderator moderate only their thread.

Keeping discourse civil is easy. I do it daily, even to people who need a swift kick up the butt

Reading the rules of the forum helps also.

Of course, if premium members have more to gain by a great forum, we may even be able to loosen up some of those rules and trust people to look after the place...... you know, hoover up after themselves

It is only whilst people are acting ridiculously childish that we have to keep the best china put away

But we are just children at heart Isabella. Right? And children just love to be mischievous.

As for hoovering (?) after ourselves, while keeping to the guidelines, that just doesn't seem possible.

Glad to see "fly by nighters" being reigned in though.

This is true Abbie but I strongly encourage those subjects by their nature that are designed to purposely exclude, any prothletizing , and political propaganda to not be part of this art forum.

I was under the impression that there are quite a number of people who regularly engage in trollish behavior who are premium members.

Although I guess if a premium account gets shut down, they'll eventually run out of CC cards with which to open a new one.

I happen to agree, Drew. I would just like to be able to relax more so not having to pounce on people all the time. Now that would be cool, yes?

Yes!

lt would be cool to be able close and reopen a thread by the originator at will. this would give the discussion more direction and a lesser potential for high jacking.

David, It's the vengeance trolls who are out to reck the reputations of others that will have to pay A high premium to create accounts just for that purpose. 30 buckz per act of trolling is a lot to pay to seek a single act of vengeance!

Personally, I was disappointed to see the name Pepe Le Pew being misused in such a way. Besides being one of my favorite characters, Pepe was - of course - always a perfect gentleman, and a master of language.

Drew.. you mean topic starters close their threads? They can do that already......... But also reactivate it when closed?

Unfortunately that would be awful. We close threads for many reasons and are very grateful when they cannot be reactivated

No abbie, if a moderator closes a thread, that's it.

Hmmm interesting.....

it would be better discribed as "The originator of the thread has left the room" option so that it could be selected by the originator and easily programmed into the subroutine of the forum platform. the closure stuff would remain untouched.

"The originator of the threat...

Freudian slip there?


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Sorry Dan but it was caught an corrected before your post. sometimes I hate the auto spell check on my tablet!

There was one Sunday when Abbie was not here where the troll or trolls were very angry and very intrusive invading multiple discussion threads. I even feel somewhat uncomfortable mentioning it here but I will take my chances because I feel it is important.

Where or how can someone report these troll activities privately so not to be put in a position where one might feel threatened? On that Sunday in one of the discussions, I asked for help because I did not know where else to turn and I ended up retracting my plea/erasing my comments for help due to harassment. No one should ever feel threatened here. The good obviously outweighs the bad here so I'm still here and happy to be here.

Outside of the trolls or troll, I have felt that every discussion here has been respectful and beneficial. We are all adults and it should always be respectful. I will say if my comments here bring troll harassment, I will be sadly not partaking in any further discussions except for ones that are strictly formatted.

Laurie, I'm sure you being harassed along with several other members led up to Sean's decision to limit the discussion board to paying members. It saddens me that this limits those who's budget keeps them from participating.

I was tempted to accept your challenge, Laurie, but then I looked at your art.
Good stuff there. :)

It is very sad that it has to come to this, I agree.

Thank you, Joe.

I will be stepping away for now.
feel free to keep the conversation relative to the proposition going.

Laurie

There are three people moderating, so there should always be someone in a position to help that you can send a private message to, in theory at least.

There really should be another mod in some place like Hawaii to cover the wee hours in the North East. I'll volunteer is Sean covers the rent ;-)

Sean did not want to do this. I am afraid it is my fault.

Laurie just drop me a line. However with the changes I am hoping this will no longer be a worry

Thank you, David. So one should send private messages to the moderators? I am only aware of Abbie. Who are the other two?

Thank you, Abbie. I reviewed the rules and now know who to contact.

Laurie, they are linked in the rules. If you have read the forum rules you will have seen them
https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=260080:)

Thank you, Abbie. Sorry, I guess I missed it. I'll review them again.

Laurie, i really hope you were joking - you´re not really thinking about quitting participating just beacuse of one disturbed Element? You would make this Element very happy and we don´t want to make trolls happy, do we? :o)

maybe if this went on for a month or two, the jerks would get bored and leave, then you put it back to how it was, see how that goes.

or at the very least, make it so non prem's have to go through a captcha. at the very least it would slow them down. and cut off the bots.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

I agree with you to a point, Hans regarding not making trolls happy but I have to also feel comfortable. I would continue to participate in the formatted games, but would not continue to partake in the open discussions if it becomes harassing or threatening. It should never get to that point and personally, I'm just not ok with it.

Hope you don't mind, Ed.
There's a lot of truth here...

********************************

Another Casualty:


the Trolls have won
the Trolls have won

they have taken a page
of the terrorist handbook
wiped their asses
and smeared it upon this forum
with no decorum
shall we build a wall
so nothing at all can disturb the piece
in this world of cautious cause
smaller and smaller
narrower and narrower
thoughts become
until it’s won
one by one
and done
by none


ed meredith
paid up member

Laurie, i´d say to feel comfortable it´s best not to talk to a troll. If neccessary contact an admin and that will be the end of the troll.

- Never ever try to discuss with a troll
- don´t try to convice him
- don´t argue
- don´t try to apeace him
- don´t try to tame him

never has worked - never will.

The most simple thing to do is the most hardest to bear - ignoring the troll. The moderators will deal with him.

Thank you, Hans. I now also know who to contact directly after reviewing the rules again. :)

so what does one see when they log in and they aren't premium?


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

I for one am very happy about this change. And who knows, it might be one more incentive for a free member to become a premium member.

and sort of the punchline is - no one can complain about it, or not in the forum...

of course if you have a few accounts you have to log into the right one. or of you slipped back to the free one, well, oh well.



---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

this is how trained i am, i tried clicking that button.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

haha

I am sorry that Sean feels it necessary to treat the non-paid members this way.

I personally think that is a mistake.

The biggest problems with the trolls, in most of the cases, is not the trolls themselves, but the people that feed them. As far as I am concerned, those are the people that should be dealt with.

This just seems like it is punishing a large number of innocent people just to get to a few trolls.

There are a ton of non-paying members that can benefit a tremendous amount from participating in the threads.

We have any number of threads going that help people promote their work outside of FAA and their not being able to participate puts them at disadvantage. The more they benefit the more likely it is they will upgrade to premium, you would think.

I actually enjoy reading some of the troll threads and seeing the people that complain the most about trolls, doing most of the feeding of the trolls. I rarely post in the troll threads other than to tell people to stop posting in the troll threads. The trolls love it when I do that because then the troll feeders turn on me and leave them alone. lol

But we will see how many make the payment just to be able to post in the threads.

Can non premium members still read what's in the forum?

Yes they can

As I said before, this is not Sean's fault

feed them or not, it almost doesn't matter. like pepe this morning, it didn't matter if there was a feeding time, he simply filled it in non stop. flooding the forum with nonsense.

maybe if there was a fee - like $10 a year, so they can post in the forum - non refundable. a troll might try it, but eventually they would run out of cash.

feeding them - i'm certain there are a number of "new people" that was the same troll in the normal type account. like jean and friends, sooner and his friends. where he got fed as a normal person, then showed their forked tongue.

if the chat were easier to use, i'm thinking people would go there instead. but its really tricky to have a real conversation there, the page is limited, the text is limited, sometimes it doesn't post your message and you have to start again etc. plus no one is there, other than a few random banned people.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

of course another way around it is to limit what they can post.

1 new message a day, and maybe 5 replies, until they earned the right to post more. this would limit the constant trolling and replying, there would be a count down under their name. under our name, we would have a premium tag, Grade A...


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Thanks and I don't think it's anyone's fault I think it's a good idea to cut back on the trolls. ;-)

Thank you for the tips and suggestions but this is how it is going to be for a little while at least.

Abbie, I don't think "fault" is the correct word, I know I didn't use it. But I read it as it was his decision.

I just hate to see innocents punished for something they never did is all.

Needs must. I am sorry.

"I for one am very happy about this change. And who knows, it might be one more incentive for a free member to become a premium member."

Jessica, I am not happy for the change. We don't even know at this point who this eliminates. exclusion by income is a loss for everyone! It's easy to say this is a good thing when $30 means nothing to you but when every dollar counts, 30 hurts.

This is who the troll or trolls hurts.
Students
Elderly with fixed income
Low income artist
The unemployed
The under employed

Back to the proposition,

I would like to encourage members to suggest Ideas on how to keep our discourse civil.

I am wondering - is 30$ / year really a matter of debate? I mean that´s what - 2.5$ a month? To me it apears if someone has trouble to spend that amount of money for such a great forum than that person has -by far- much more serious problems than photography and i don´t mean that in a rude way - quite to the contrary.
To get that into context - i was in a few photocommunities in germany before i came here and one particular community was 4€ / month (Basic), 6€ / month (pro), 8€/month (World) and 15.99 / month (Complete) - and that was just for showing my images and using the forum - i never sold through that site.

Trolls - I cannot imagine there being trolls on FAA - they must have come through the Pixels door. LOL

Who ever done it - it's perhaps a good deed - we'll see.

Can Non-Premium Members converse in Group Discussions?

It seems not. I think that is the point

Yes. They can join in the groups as normal

basically we are going to find out just how many people actually pay here. i'm guessing, not a ton, or at least the ones that respond.

maybe there should be a bonus, like if they sell a certain amount they get to be in the forum.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

so i guess there will have to be a new group for newbies only, and all questions will be asked there?


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

The topic here is, I may be wrong, supposed to be how can we talk civilly

Thank You Isabella. Important for Group Administrators to know.

i would like to join a group of artists who are professional.

Does one exist?

Yes Abbie, it is about how to keep a civil discussion going. So far, the discussion is somewhat civil. I know trolls and trolling is on the minds of many. I will not shut the discussion down yet but I think part of civility is about consideration and empathy for other members.

professional in what way?


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

I aways liked trolls, the conforming, greater and larger group is always boring.

"The topic here is, I may be wrong, supposed to be how can we talk civilly"

The step you've taken won't change any personalities or turn annoying individuals into BFFs. The rules are still in place to snag individuals with low impulse control. However, it will make moderation easier and it WILL eliminate the one problem troll who has been polluting the forum.

If that decision is reversed, 24/7 moderation could work (i.e. minute to minute), but I think that would certainly eliminate any meaningful discussions.

Artists are volatile and opinionated. Some can deliver blistering comments with beautiful diplomacy, others are like bulls in china shops.

The best stories, best discussions and best learning always contain a bit (or even a lot) of conflict. Eliminate trolls, absolutely, but try not to moderate out all the conflict.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Abbie wrote, "The topic here is, I may be wrong, supposed to be how can we talk civilly " often by biting our tongues, or pretend it is your momma or papa you are speaking with - I was gonna say with a child - but, better not go there - children don't understand.

Civil discourse. "of or relating to the regular business (art and photography) of citizens not connected to politics or a religion. polite without being friendly necessarily". (ok, so I doctored what it said - but it still reads correctly.)

I think "polite" is a good word.

Haha, Dan awesome write up, minus putting all of us into opinionated or volatile!

I love art, my fellow artists, and those most passionate...are the more interesting peeps.

Whether I agree or disagree, tis meaningless, as the more entertaining threads are one's I do not participate in due to a slightly hostile environment of polite words.

Dan, I agree partially. That's why I Stated what I Stated to Glenn. There is nothing more creative than working within a set of parameters and getting your ideas across in spite of the parameters. If some are not up for the challenge then they can continue as they wish.

On that note of politeness....it is good to be treated politely. I have been politely addressed when off topic, and/or wrong, and never resented that....thank you Abbie.

Destructive trolls are disrespectful of the general population here...they won't be missed.

But, hehe, here it comes....why , effectively, ban established non-members who are still respected by the populous, whose threads have caused no havoc? ,
except needing extra tolerance and a little leeway here. The meek shall inherit the earth....how boring is that!

Never mind. This is a business forum. Opinions seem to be tolerated, but, only if compliant . So be it. Back to my drawing board.

Perhaps non member could apply by some sort of request process. I feel bad if some who liked to participate now can not.

I guess I read it wrong. Will the group admins now have to pay closer attention to their threads?

Ode to a Troll

Searching for spice to add to my gruel
I found a nice thread, my time to be cruel
Here they were talking all in a flutter
About the joys of mixing sugar with butter
I piped in not once but twice with a start
About the benefits of poached koala heart
The glares I could sense from behind my screen
The stares of disbelief. Why would he? That's mean.

Joe Burgess
Troll Sympathizer

FAA, please note..........fyi..............I just received this unsolicited faa/mail..........a voice now in the wilderness............saying how it is ......VIVA:::::::::

...........................................

To:

VIVA Anderson

Subject:

Hello and thank you for your graciousness

Message:

I am not a premium account so as of today I couldn't comment and interact on the discussion forum. I was able to read the comments on your thread about who can open a thread... it is sad how some artists reacted with joy calling trolls poor and just being overall happy this new rule. I am glad there are people like you in the world. Cheer Viva. Sending love,

...............................................................................




...............................

Posting in the forum is a privilege, not a right. Members only. Even then, disregard the rules and be tossed out, member or not.

To quote Hans (a Member) "it apears if someone has trouble to spend that amount of money for such a great forum than that person has -by far- much more serious problems than photography and i don´t mean that in a rude way - quite to the contrary."


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Yes, agree, Dan...........it is a privilege........but, always a but.......I think some balance is needed ....... of course ban the rule-breakers, but, listen to
the disinherited , too..........did you read the missive so heartfelt, sent to me? This problem is to do with some who cannot pay more.....a balance
surely could be found, for them, and our sakes too.......who wants to be in a polite elite that is cut off from others' reality.....other artists, I mean.
the new plan-not......disinherits all of us.

Well Dan, Hans possible could be wrong, at least in some or many cases. Just because something exist doesn't make it a general rule. That how stereotypes are perpetuated.

And on that note:
Good night all!